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  • Ouch

    Story from BBC NEWS:

    'Friendly fire' killing unlawful

    The death of a UK soldier when a US pilot fired on his convoy in Iraq was unlawful, a coroner has ruled.

    The "friendly fire" incident near Basra in March 2003 which killed Lance Corporal Matty Hull, 25, amounted to a a criminal act, Andrew Walker said.

    Video footage from the cockpit of the US A-10 "tankbuster" plane was shown to his family during the inquest, but was not shown at the Oxford inquest.

    The coroner said the death was "entirely avoidable".

    He said: "I believe that the full facts have not yet come to light."

    No American witnesses gave evidence at the inquest, despite Mr Walker's requests to them to co-operate more fully with his investigation.

    He said the US pilots should have flown lower to confirm identities before opening fire.

    Mr Walker, Oxfordshire assistant deputy coroner, added: "The attack on the convoy amounted to an assault.

    "It was unlawful because there was no lawful reason for it and in that respect it was criminal."

    The Ministry of Defence had refused to let the tape be shown, but changed its mind after the footage was leaked to the Sun newspaper.

    The deputy coroner ruled it could be seen by the Hull family, who could then ask questions, but it could not be shown in open court.

    The inquest heard from another British soldier, Corporal of Horse Stuart Matthews, who said he believed the incident would not have happened if American troops had as strict rules as the British on opening fire.

    L/Cpl Hull, who was from the Household Cavalry, died from multiple injuries inside his blazing Scimitar tank despite efforts by colleagues to save him.

    Four other soldiers travelling in the convoy of light armoured vehicles were also injured in the incident on 28 March 2003 near Basra.

    L/Cpl Hull's widow Susan had said she wanted the coroner to record a verdict of unlawful killing "only if that's the right verdict".

    The Hull family believes key information was blacked out of a US Friendly Fire Investigation Board Report given to the coroner investigating his death.

    And Susan Hull directly appealed US President George W Bush to give the coroner the information.

    Deputy chief of mission at the US embassy in London, David Johnson, said investigations into such incidents were "extremely thorough".

    He added that if anyone had been to blame for the incident, "that culpability would have been pursued".

    Story from BBC NEWS:
    BBC, News, BBC News, news online, world, uk, international, foreign, british, online, service
    Atkins didn't say 'Calories don't count',
    he said, 'Don't count calories.'
    --------------------------------------
    Male 6 ft 3in 60 years old. Married 28 years.
    Began Atkins March 04 at 260lb, reduced to 203lb by April 07 and maintained.
    Blood Pressure Mar 04 147/94 . Jun 04 121/74 . Dec 04 119/72 . Jan 06 126/71 . Dec 07 110/70
    Atkins makes exercise mandatory - I took up cycling - see last pics at 203lb.


    http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJournals.html?Owner=labarum

  • #2
    Re: Ouch

    I don't understand why you posted this?

    Lady Hawke

    Attitude Changes Everything.
    Just like the butterfly, I too will awaken in my own time.
    ---><---



    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Ouch

      It is a big story in UK, and surely one one that affects UK/US relations.

      Is it not worth airing among a group of intelligent folk from both sides of the Atlantic?
      Atkins didn't say 'Calories don't count',
      he said, 'Don't count calories.'
      --------------------------------------
      Male 6 ft 3in 60 years old. Married 28 years.
      Began Atkins March 04 at 260lb, reduced to 203lb by April 07 and maintained.
      Blood Pressure Mar 04 147/94 . Jun 04 121/74 . Dec 04 119/72 . Jan 06 126/71 . Dec 07 110/70
      Atkins makes exercise mandatory - I took up cycling - see last pics at 203lb.


      http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJournals.html?Owner=labarum

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Ouch

        Originally posted by Labarum
        It is a big story in UK, and surely one one that affects UK/US relations.

        Is it not worth airing among a group of intelligent folk from both sides of the Atlantic?
        I live in Norway and hadn't seen this until your post.

        It could affect the relations of the UK/US - now a days anything and everything seems to affect how countries and people relate.....it's possible it might have an affect on how we at the ADBB veiw each other.....if things heat up.

        I was just curious because other than "Ouch" in the threads title you made not further comments and "ouch" alone has the potential to be misconstrued.

        I hope that your thread receives the discussion and response you were looking for or hoping for when you posted it.

        Blessings be upon all mentioned in the article, those stationed so far from loved ones, and the innocent victims of war.

        Lady Hawke

        Attitude Changes Everything.
        Just like the butterfly, I too will awaken in my own time.
        ---><---



        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Ouch

          Hmmm.

          I can't think of a single government who hasn't had an incident that they wishes hadn't happened. It is kind of universal. Soldiers - being human - have the fraility that allows them to make mistakes.

          While I am certainly not defending any single person's actions, I think it would be misconstrued to villify a government, based on the actions of a select few.

          This particular case is a situation that could be argued vehemently.

          I think it would be better left to the courts to do that, however.

          Just my 2 cents


          Restart -10/18/2009 - 204.6 lbs (UGH!!!)
          Goal 1 - under 200 - met 10/19/2009
          Goal 2 - 190 - met 10/25/2009
          Goal 3 - 180
          Goal 4 - 170
          Goal 5 - 160
          Goal 6 - 150
          Goal 7 - 140
          Goal 8 - 135
          Goal - To zip up current pants without sucking it in-10/25/09
          Goal - To need a belt/roll waistband of current pants
          Goal - To wear the next size down - 11/13/09
          Goal - To wear the next size down - without a muffin top!! 11/18/09
          Goal - To wear 'those' jeans (ya know - the ones in the back of the closet, hidden under a winter coat)
          Day 13 - wine free/ cheat free

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Ouch

            I deliberately posted the story without substantive comment so as not to set the discussion running in any particular direction.

            As a serving member of Her Majesty's Forces I can only properly make the most general comment: sitting in an air-conditioned courtroom affords the luxury of examining the data thoroughly and at leisure, this is denied the combatant who has to make an instant decision and act upon it swiftly. Honest mistakes are made by all of us all of the time - the stakes are far higher on the battlefield. It is quite wrong to judge the actions undertaken in one set of circumstances by the accepted standards in another.
            Atkins didn't say 'Calories don't count',
            he said, 'Don't count calories.'
            --------------------------------------
            Male 6 ft 3in 60 years old. Married 28 years.
            Began Atkins March 04 at 260lb, reduced to 203lb by April 07 and maintained.
            Blood Pressure Mar 04 147/94 . Jun 04 121/74 . Dec 04 119/72 . Jan 06 126/71 . Dec 07 110/70
            Atkins makes exercise mandatory - I took up cycling - see last pics at 203lb.


            http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJournals.html?Owner=labarum

            Comment

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