Weight lifting, body building and carbs.

[2big4mysize]

those that do the slow burn program workout 30 min once a week and will not have any problem eatting their normal Atkins program and doing the next workout.

BTW protein takes longer to digest mouth to blood stream then any of the 3 food groups and uses a more energy to do so.

[Naja]

those that do the slow burn program workout 30 min once a week and will not have any problem eatting their normal Atkins program and doing the next workout.

Nope, not at all.

In weight lifting, doing "super slow" training refers to lifting and lowering the weight verrrrrry slooooowwwllly. It's remarkably intense. "Burns" are partial reps at the end of a set when you can't do any more full reps. If your "slow burn program" is something different and only takes 30 minutes once a week, you could do that on zero carbs or Induction level carbs and not have a problem.

[2big4mysize]

Naja the Slow burn is a work out many are doing as it only takes 30 min once a week and got a big plug when a news show reported Barbara Walters was doing it. here is an ad for it

http://seriousstrength.com/buy_the_book.html

those doing the lighter weights with slower reps programs will still be fine doing their Atkins WOE with their carb levels their metabolism can handle.

[2big4mysize]

Since Lyle McDonald seems to be the expert Naja trusts I thought I'd do a little reading of his protein info and came up with some info that totally contradics the above statements that consuming that free pool of Amino Acids is bad for muscle building.

the following is froman article Amino Acid Kinetics and Adaptations
by Lyle McDonald, CSCS with the cited references included.

In a study involving weight training, subjects received either 1.3 g/kg or 2 g/kg of protein per day (41). In the high protein group, AA oxidation was increased by 150% above normal levels. In addition, while there was no change in protein synthesis or breakdown in the low protein group, the high protein group increased synthesis by 105% and breakdown by 107%. Despite this increase in AA oxidation, there was a significant amount of lean body mass gained, approximately 3 lbs over a 4 week span, further supporting the concept that AA oxidation is not the negative it has been made out to be.
41. 114. Fern, EB et. al. Effects of exaggerated amino acid and protein supply in man. Experientia (1991) 47: 168-172.

seem even though that AA pool was in a negative state the body added lean body mass ensive
and this

While many negative statements have been made about AA oxidation and catabolism in recent bodybuilding literature, what is often misunderstood is that the byproducts of AA oxidation may play important roles in metabolism. The increased oxidation of AA is though to play a role in growth and has been termed the 'anabolic drive' by protein researchers (8,9). For example, when leucine is oxidized, it produces ketoisocaproate (KIC) which may play a positive role in protein synthesis (10). When KIC is oxidized, beta-hydroxy-methyl butyrate (HMB) is produced which may also play a role in protein synthesis (11), although it's real-world effects as a supplement have fallen short of expectations. The take-home message is that the oxidation of AAs is not always a negative aspect of AA metabolism.
8. Millward, DJ. The endocrine response to dietary protein: the anabolic drive on growth. In Milk Proteins: Nutritional, clinical, functional and technological aspects. C.A. Barth, E. Schlimme (Eds.) Springer Verlag, 1989.

9. Millward, DJ and Rivers, JPW. The need for indispensable amino acids: the concept of the anabolic drive. Diabetes/Metabolism Rev (1989) 5:191-211.

10. Tischler, ME et. al. Does leucine, leucyl-tRNA, or some metabolite of leucine regulate protein synthesis and degradation in skeletal and cardiac muscle? J Biol Chem (1982) 257: 1613-1621.

11. Nissen, S et. al. Effect of leucine metabolite B-hydroxy-B-methylbutyrate on muscle metabolism during resistance-exercise training. J Appl Physiol (1996) 81: 2095-2104.

Again eating that stored AA pool results in muscle growth not shrinkage as was stated in another post an often misunderstood concept. ensive

oh and while he was discussing this growth of muscles he made the following statement

The practical implication of this should be clear: to maximally affect protein turnover away from net breakdown and towards net protein synthesis, a constant supply of AAs is required, along with a maintenance of normal insulin levels.

Normal insulin levels that would be what we get on our blood glucose control with our Atkins WOE. ensive
And lastly
The effect of weight training

Undoubtably, resistance training affects protein turnover and net gains in body protein. However, it has been shown that weight training affects both protein breakdown and synthesis. Following the performance of a typical bout of weight training, both protein synthesis (35,36) and breakdown (37,3 in the target muscle are increased. However, synthesis is increased moreso than breakdown (37,3 such that there is a net gain in muscle mass.

35. Chesley, A et. al. Changes in human muscle protein synthesis after resistance exercise. J Appl Physiol (1992) 73: 1383-1388.

36. MacDougall, JD et. al. The time course for elevated muscle protein synthesis following heavy resistance exercise. Can J Appl Physiol (1995) 20: 480-486.

37. Phillips, SM et. al. Mixed muscle protein synthesis and breakdown after resistance exercise in humans. Am J Physiol (1997) 273: E99-E107, 1997.

38. Biolo, G et. al. Increased rates of protein turnover and amino acid transport after resistance exercise in humans. Am J Physiol (1995) 268: E514-E20.

Yep seems Lyle and Dr Atkins are in agreement on building muscles too. extra protein in the diet and control the blood sugar levels to control the insulin levels since insulin is a blood AA clearing hormone too

[Anonymous]

Thanks, Naja.

I'm not sure how much more glycogen I'm using...I'll have to research it and see if I can find the answer.

I do know that I'm gaining as much muscle as I did when I did circuit training 3x a week, and I'm only doing Slow Burn 30 min. every 6 or 7 days. Lost 2 1/2" off my waist in the first two weeks! :joy

I started Phase 1 (induction) of the SB Diet today, so I'll try the carb-loading pre-workout on Tuesday and see how it goes!

Thanks again!!!
April

[Naja]

The study cited discusses the effects of AA oxidation on a high protein diet, but I don't see any references to carbs or fat being consumed (or not). Unless you can verify that the higher protein diet in question is also ketogenic, it's not directly relevant. The result of oxidizing AA's may not be the same on a high protein ketogenic diet as on a high protein non ketogenic diet.

[Naja]

[quote="Anonymous"]I'm not sure how much more glycogen I'm using...I'll have to research it and see if I can find the answer.[/quote

Good luck finding the research that applies to the specific form of exercise you're doing as well as the specific diet you're doing. It can be tough.

I do know that I'm gaining as much muscle as I did when I did circuit training 3x a week, and I'm only doing Slow Burn 30 min. every 6 or 7 days. Lost 2 1/2" off my waist in the first two weeks! :joy

I started Phase 1 (induction) of the SB Diet today, so I'll try the carb-loading pre-workout on Tuesday and see how it goes!

A 30 minute slow motion exercise program that does not involve heavy weights does not need any carb load. Eat your normal carb allowance and you'll be fine.

[2big4mysize]

actually Naja he does say only 30 carbs are needed with that protein at meals so it is a ketogeneic diet by his standards.

And one must remember Lyle McDonald's definition of a ketogenic diet isn't the same as Dr Atkins' as one moves through the phases and adds more carbs. Any premaintenace Atkins dieter eating more then 1800 cals has surpassed Lyle's definition since in pre carbs are up to 20% Any OWLer eating over 3600 cals would also be out of Lyles' ketogenic but by Dr Atkins definition of Ketosis which predates lyle by over 20 yrs they would be.

[Anonymous]

I thought I would post an update: I did my Slow Burn today after only having a few carbs, and I could tell the difference in my smaller muscles (biceps, triceps), but not the larger ones (quads, hamstring, etc.) ensive I was pretty shaky though, kind of like a low blood sugar reaction. I had some protein and a few grapes :yummy when I got home.

Going to try to have about 10-15 carbs next time pre-workout; we'll see how that does.

p.s. please ignore any typos, muscle failure MEANS muscle failure! (translated: it's hard to hold my arms up to type!!!)

[2big4mysize]

guest you are going fine if you did your slow burn correct that is how yuu should be feeling no matter what you ate and you should be sore for a day or 2 afterwards. I know several OWlers ding the slow burn program and they are doing great. One has been doing OWl and slow burn since Feb and really sees changes in her muscles and body comp while losing weight and gaining lean body tissue.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the encouragement! (and sorry, I forgot to sign my name!)

I'm loving the Lo carb/Slow Burn combination. :ThumbsUp In one week I have lost:

1/2" off my waist
1/2" off my abs
1 1/2' (!!!) off my hips
1/2" off my thighs
1/4" off my upper arm
1/4" off my lower arm

So as you can see, I'm sold!
April

[pgreen6840]

It sounds like everybody is training for the olympics. Most hype about very technical stuff eg; carb loading,atf, cycling with creatine etc ad nausia
is for a entirely different level of elite athlete. For us mere mortal eat healthy quality foods and the body will do just fine. It will heal fine and
there will be quality muscle tone and growth. We are the victims of our genetics and people tend to forget that factor.
Enjoy the process and enjoy the results!

Phil