Why soybeans black nor yellow are NOT allowed on induction

[2big4mysize]

JoanOH wrote:
I am on the first rung of OWL, have been on Atkins for 6 months.

I have always felt that Black Soy Beans should not be included in the "legumes" category, but should be able to be eaten from Induction on. The Eden Black Soy Beans have (per 1/2 cup) 8 carbs, 7 g fiber, for 1 net carb per serving. I remember reading that legumes were not allowed as they were a high protein/high carb mix, but these black soy beans really don't fall into that category. Here's their nutritional info:

Nutrition Facts
Serving Size 1/2 cup (130g)
Servings Per Container 3.5
Amount Per Serving
Calories 120 Calories from Fat 50
% Daily Value*
Total Fat 6 g 9%
Saturated Fat 1 g 5%
Trans Fat 0 g
Polyunsaturated Fat 0 g
Omega-3 360 mg
Omega-6 2210 mg
Monounsaturated Fat 1 g
Omega-9 0 mg
Cholesterol 0 mg 0%
Sodium 30 mg 1%
Potassium 310 mg 9%
Total Carbohydrate 8 g 3%
Dietary Fiber 7 g 28%
Soluble Fiber 2 g
Insoluble Fiber 5 g
Sugars 1 g
Protein 11 g 22%
Vitamin A 0 IU 10%
Calcium mg 8%
Iron mg 15%
Thiamin (Vit B1) mg 4%
Riboflavin (Vit B2) mg 8%
Niacin (Vit B3) mg 2%
Vitamin B6 0 mg 2%
Folate (Vit B9) mg 6%
Phosphorus mg 15%
Magnesium mg 15%
Zinc mg 15%

Can you explain to me if these are/should be included in the regular "legumes" category or if they should be considered more along the "soy" category -- such as tofu.

First I want to say my allergy to soy in no way is influencing me to deystroy this myth.

Actually this is a very big mistake many many low carbers are making. SOYBEANS ARE SOYBEANS ARE SOYBEANS
there isn't any nutritional difference between black soybeans and yellow soybean (green soy beans are immature soybeans and can be black or yellow) Soybeans can have black hilum and or black seed coat (hull). Black soybeans refers to black seed coat. The seed coat is a thin layer that surrounds the cotyledon. The cotyledon of "yellow" soybeans and "black" soybean is yellow and has similar chemical/nutritional composition. Dehulled black and yellow soybean will have the same composition and color. Food made from whole black soybean (including the seed coat) will be slightly darker than food made using whole yellow soybean. Black soybeans are not used to make tofu because tofu is white in color and the black seed coats would cause the tofu to be slightly darker in color. Many products labeled black soybeans are infact fermented yellow soybeans that have darkened in the process. Soybeans are a wonderful food and should be included in your OWL at the 6th rung with the other legumes where they belong.

So you are now saying BUT the label says.... There isn't a standard law :yikes :yikes for Food labels that says the fiber has to be included in the listed value for total carbohydrate even though it is listed on the label. :yikes (I know you are now banging your heads on the walls in frustration as i had the same problem with refried beans.) the FDA allows them to do labels either way and we unsuspecting consumers think total listed carbs minus fiber on the label is our Atkins net carbs. Those beans are one of the products out there with the fiber not listed in the total carb counts. (Several successful long time low carbers have contacted Eden to comfirm this info)here is a copy of a posting by one of them, doreen T a senior mod on a very large Low carb board who has been low carbing fro yrs.

Just a note about the Eden Black Soybeans.

Some people erroneously think these beans have only 1g net carbs per ½ cup serving (ie, the label shows 8g carbs, 7g fiber) Sounds too good to be true, right?? It is.

I did the math .. and based on the stated calories, protein, fat and carbs, there actually are 8 full grams of carbohydrate contributing calories .. meaning the fiber has been PRE-subtracted. I emailed Eden company, and they confirmed this.

More and more manufacturers are pre-subtracting fiber before calculating the calories and carbs in the food, especially is the food is considered "high fiber" ie, over 4g per serving.

Doreen

here is another

I also contacted Eden foods a few months ago when I first started using this product because I too thought 1 carb was too good to be true and they told me the same thing. I've brought this up on another low carb web site and I was getting alot of doubious reactions to what I believed so I just left the customer service phone # and told them to call themselves. Supposedly their not allowed to do this in the States. I cook with them anyway, they're still lower in carbs then the others and better for you.

here are the phone numbers for anyone wanting to call and confirm the info
US Toll Free:

1+888 441-EDEN
1+888 441 (3336)

(or)

1+888 424-EDEN
1+888 424 (3336)

International:1+517 456-7424

[not2late]

One very important point 2big makes is figuring out the carbs yourself. It's relatively easy to do as there are a number of "hidden" carb calculators on the Net.

http://www.lowcarb.ca/low-carb-tools/hidden_carbs.html

http://lowcarb4life.sugarbane.com/hiddencarbs.htm

http://www.e-clipse.com/hidcarbcal.htm

Granted they do have some problems because many manufacturers "round" their numbers, but they'll still give you a decent idea of what's not being counted.

The other soy conundrums are the soy products, like tofu, soymilk, etc.

Soy flour is simply ground whole soy beans. http://www.soybean.org/faq/SoyFlour1.html

Soy milk is made from crushing whole soybeans, adding water and separating the solids from the liquid. So it's not a totally decarbed item.

Tofu is made from soy milk. The soy milk is heated and a coagulant is added. The coagulant causes the soy protein to separate from the liquid (or whey), similar to the process by which dairy cheese is made. It also isn't carb-free, but the carb content is lower than whole soybeans.

Tofu used to be called "soy cheese" in the 1970s and 1980s--I have some old veggie cookbooks that refer to tofu as "soy cheese". Around the mid-90s, vegan companies began making an imitation cheese product from soy and called it soy cheese. The soy cheese mentioned in the Induction Acceptable Foods list is most likely tofu because the 1992 version of the diet noted "soy cheese (tofu)". Moreover, Dr. Atkins New Carbohydrate Gram Counter 2002 mentions that tofu is acceptable for Induction.

The below link gives the recipe for making soy milk and tofu from scratch (if you want to try this at home---be sure to set aside an entire saturday or sunday to do it. In my vegetarian days, I used to make my own soy milk, tofu and seitan partly because I wanted to know how to do it and partly because I thought it would be better for my budget.)

http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~hansen/recip/tofu.html

Tempeh is a fermented soybean and grain (rice or another grain) product. http://www.soyfoods.com/soyfoodsdesc...ns/Tempeh.html

Miso is another fermented soybean product. http://www.ivu.org/faq/specialities.html

TVP (textured vegetable protein) is made from soy flour. http://www.ivu.org/faq/specialities.html

Soy flour is simply ground whole soy beans. http://www.soybean.org/faq/SoyFlour1.html

Soynuts are roasted whole soybeans. http://www.soybean.org/faq/Soynuts2.html

Soy Sauce is another fermented soybean product http://www.saucecafe.com/article/5/42


If you want to learn more about soy, http://www.soybean.org has a free soy cookbook that gives a synopsis of soy and soy products.

[2big4mysize]

tofu referred to as soy cheese in the footnotes of the old Atkins DANDRS induction food chapters was a legal induction food too.

Some times even if it looks good in your hidden carb calculator as this black soy bean product does please do some checking with the manufacturer like Doreen did. As I said in the first post I can't eat soy so while I was jealous of all those folks having 1 carb beans I never checked it out. I haven't checked any of the franken foods out for hidden or not labeled carbs because I know I can't eat them so I don't bother. I did run into the same fiber cals and carbs missing with LaPreferria beans so i do know the anger and frustration y'all are feeling about those black soybeans. Oh the good side if you have been eatting them already and not having any stalling effects then you know your CCLL is at least 7 carbs higher then you thought. :yes

[JoanOH]

Thanks to both of you for this info!!! And thanks, 2big, for the info on the soluble vs insoluble fiber too. All postings have been tremendously helpful and educational. I knew about the hidden carb counter, but never thought to check it for the black soybeans. I'll hang on until the proper rung of OWL for them now!

Joan J

[MotherOfGizmo]

WOW :yikes I wondered how they could grow some soy beans to be lower in carbs then others! But I do have a question--if they are doing this on their Black Soy Beans--how come they don't do it on their cans of green ones? Why would they be labeling their products so inconsistently? I checked the carb counts on the same brand but green soy beans and they were much higher.

[2big4mysize]

MotherOfGizmo
I couldn't tell you why they do things the way they do. you can call them and ask their toll free info is there. it could be if it is based on serving size that more green soybeans fit in the measured size.

edited to add

I called the company after some folk expressed some concerns and ask some specific questions about the black soybeans and they did some checking and came up with:

1) there are over 200 different varieties of beans called soybeans and Eden has selected a certain type for its quality
2) the count is for a serving and a serving includes the beans and the liquid in the can.
3) they stand by their lab and it does include the fiber in the total carbs and she didn't know about why someone at their company would tell those two folk differently.

[CHFvictim]

2big said,

I called the company after some folk expressed some concerns and ask some specific questions about the black soybeans and they did some checking and came up with:

1) there are over 200 different varieties of beans called soybeans and Eden has selected a certain type for its quality
2) the count is for a serving and a serving includes the beans and the liquid in the can.
3) they stand by their lab and it does include the fiber in the total carbs and she didn't know about why someone at their company would tell those two folk differently.

=========
Thanks for clearing that up! Good to know that the Black soybeans are really one net carb and perfect for those who want to use them in their recipes with this WOE. Often we will find contradictory statements on the web.
Jim

[CHFvictim]

And just so to add to the 'whole picture' of this discussion, Ive taken the liberty to cut and paste other comments by 2big and Gizmo on the same subject taken from another thread.
CHFvictim
==========================
(from Gizmo)
Dear Karen, Thank you for contacting Eden Foods and your interest in Eden products. Eden uses an independent lab to test our products. We use their lab reports for the information that we put on the labels. The carbohydrates that we report on our label are taken directly from their reports. The lab does not make any adjustment to the carbohydrate figure as it may relate to fiber nor does Eden Foods. Please be assured that our labels lists true carbohydrates, not a "net number". If you should have any further questions, please contact Customer Service. Sincerely, Sandra K Baker Customer Service Eden Foods 800.248.0320 517.456.7424 Fax: 517.456.7025 www.edenfoods.com <http://www.edenfoods.com>

(Now from 2big)
1) those are mature beans not immature 2) there are over 200 different varieties of beans called soybeans and they have selected a certain type for its quality 3) the count is for a serving and a serving includes the beans and the liquid in the can (how much is there in there BTW) 4) they stand by their lab and it does include the fiber cals in the total cals and carbs and she didn't know about why someone at the company would tell those two folk differently.

(also from 2big paraphrased)

Both yellow and black soybeans are low carb.

[spunkin]

Thank you for posting this information!