Carbs for post-workout

[xven]

I still seem to be confused on this one. Is carb intake along with your post workout shake acceptable? The high insulin sensitivity and the high GI carbs would get insulin working all the much needed protein into the muscles at this time with very little/no fat storage. However, does this insluin activity itself deter ketosis? Everyone advises me that a post workout shake with the works (High-GI carbs, dextrose specifically) is great and very much needed. I don't want to end up sacrificing my ketogenic state for this though. So, what's what here? Any help would be appreciated, thank you.

[ttdriver]

Re: Carbs for post-workout

You may find this interesting.

http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/athletic_diet.html

As one who has been running for the past 2 years and who has been on Atkins for nearly 4 years, my workouts never suffer on this woe. I eat lots of protein and good fats, along with my complex non-starchy low-glycemic fruits and veggies to fuel my running. I'm up to 30-35 miles a week and have yet to hit "the wall".

Betty

[xven]

Re: Carbs for post-workout

As interesting as a read it was, it's not what I'm talking about here. This is a post-work out shake, which majority of people take after a workout. That article focuses and discusses about carb-loading, which is done before an event/workout. I don't follow that. Ever since I've been in ketosis, I have enough strength for my workouts and they don't suffer as much as before. As mentioned before, this post work out shake is taken after a good workout, where insluin sensitivity is high and high GI carbs make an insluin rush, which transports much needed protein to your delepted/weathered muscles and provides the amino acids which they need in order to recover. Insluin doesn't store fat within this time frame, instead does what I said. Now, in terms of me staying in ketosis, will any insulin presense such as this opt me out? Thanks for the article though. Good read.

[mirna05]

Re: Carbs for post-workout

I have read about it, a trainer in the spanish forum recomends to eat a fruit as your post-workout carb.

[iyamamaschke]

Re: Carbs for post-workout

I eat fat and Protein post workout with small amounts of carbs, as your body adapts to being in the ketonic state there is no need to do the higher carbs after a workout. I have been training for a marathon my last long run Sunday was 17 miles which I ran in 3:08:20. After my run I made myself a protein shake with eggs low carb had some cheese, and made myself a chicken salad with ranch dressing all this added up to about 5 grams of carbs. I find now that my body has adapted to using Fat and Ketones for energy I don't need the extra carbs at all. I actually find my proformace dwindles if the carbs are too high. I think a lot of it has to do with adaptation. There is no need to lose your ketonic state post workout.

Sarah

[Labarum]

Re: Carbs for post-workout

I was out cycling for two hours this afternoon - on two high quality sausages, 5 oz full fat Greek Yogurt and 2oz of mixed berries. That's a regular occurance. Betty advised me I would not hit the wall on Atkins, and she was right.

Trouble with cycling is it makes me hungry and I eat more!

[ttdriver]

Re: Carbs for post-workout

ALL RIGHT BRIAN!! TERRIFIC JOB!!!



Betty

[2big4mysize]

Re: Carbs for post-workout

Brian it is good that you eat more when you are hungry.

Okay back to your insukin spiking drink. insulin is a fat storing hormone so while you got your blood sugar jacked up with your high carb stuff you are stopping your fat burning and storing your dietary fats.

Did you know Lyle McDonald who si supposed to be the guru of the muscle building and low carbing says with science to backhim up you only need 40 grams of carb fuel ( remember you are geting carb fuel from the carbohydrate backbone of your fats plus your amino acids are being converted to carbs too in the liver some andpossible in the intestines too in addition to the ones we eat as part of our Atkins) some time during the day to get that muscle building going on.

[xven]

Re: Carbs for post-workout

Okay back to your insukin spiking drink. insulin is a fat storing hormone so while you got your blood sugar jacked up with your high carb stuff you are stopping your fat burning and storing your dietary fat.

Not necessarily. Read this: http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/magaz...pportunity.htm

That's more of a detailed topic into what I'm trying to bring out here. In simple words: After your workout, your muscles are fumbling around for nutrients and insluin sensitivity is high. A Post work out shake comprising of protein (amino acids which the muscles desperately need) and HI GI Carbs (Dextrose) work in combination with dextrose spiking insluin levels and this shuttling the protein right into your muscles to help them recover. There is little to no fat storage within this time, if done correctly.

Just run a search on google about post work out nutrition if the link provided seems to in-depth.

[BodyRebuilder]

Re: Carbs for post-workout

I do not include high GI carbs in my post workout meal and have been steadily adding size and strength.

Yes carbs in that meal may be beneficial - but are not "required". In other words just because you don't include the carbs doesn't mean your muscles will not grow. Your body will be rebuilding them over the next few days not hours.

AJ

[mirna05]

Re: Carbs for post-workout

Not necessarily. Read this: http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/magaz...pportunity.htm

That's more of a detailed topic into what I'm trying to bring out here. In simple words: After your workout, your muscles are fumbling around for nutrients and insluin sensitivity is high. A Post work out shake comprising of protein (amino acids which the muscles desperately need) and HI GI Carbs (Dextrose) work in combination with dextrose spiking insluin levels and this shuttling the protein right into your muscles to help them recover. There is little to no fat storage within this time, if done correctly.

Just run a search on google about post work out nutrition if the link provided seems to in-depth.

That is the same that the trainner says in the spanish forum, but he said with a fruit after the workout, this job is done. And not to eat the protein but one hour later.

[2big4mysize]

Re: Carbs for post-workout

To make matters worse, your blood glucose levels begin to drop and you go back into a catabolic condition. So not only are you catabolic but you gain fat! WHOA! That’s the very opposite of what we want!

Gee I could have sworn that was what I posted above about insulin being fat storing. Are you reading these areticles you post for us?

In order to develop muscular endurance, and thereby become capable of performing longer and more intense workouts, we as body builders need to enhance our ability to store the carbohydrate fuel known as glycogen in our muscles.(This is one of the main reasons training for Mitochondrial density is so important!

from your article isn't it interesting that they tell you you need carbs for that endurance yet mitochondrias are where the broken down fatty acids go from final break down too and run the excat same path as the carbs in that cellular component .

This is the science we try to explain to folk who don't understand Atkins and are scared cause their trainiers tell then they got to have carbs!

And in order to gain new muscle from our workouts, we need to regularly stimulate a protein surplus with which to stimulate hypertrophy in our muscles.

my bold their quote. and are we not every meal of our Atkins eating stimulating a protein surplus? Seems we have this part covered too.

[2big4mysize]

Re: Carbs for post-workout

As more and more glycogen and glucose is burned up for energy, blood glucose levels begin to drop-off, which in turn cause insulin levels to drop drastically.



That is a very vital step to grasp because of the properties insulin has in relation to protein synthesis and anabolic hormone production.



These drops give rise to the catabolic hormone Cortisol. Cortisol is the last thing you want to let run rampant post-workout. Cortisol is the chief hormone responsible for “burning” muscle up for energy.

Since Atkineers control insulin levels by not having carb induces spikes so we have steady blood sugar rates we don't have drasitc reduction in insulin levels with out workouts. So we avoid this horrible situatiojn your auther implies occurs. Maybe you should skip the high carbs too so you could avoid it.

[2big4mysize]

Re: Carbs for post-workout

L-Glutamine:

L-glutamine is an absolutely essential amino acid that possesses anti-catabolic qualities. It is also the primary fuel source of immune cells and intestinal cells.

Under periods of stress like really intense workouts, glutamine becomes critical because your body may not be able to make enough of it. If enough glutamine is not supplied by the diet, then the loss of muscle tissue will provide the supply.

LOL LOL did you also know this is the primary molecule responsible for fatty acid transfer in mitochondrias ans Atkineers get lots of it in their proteins they eat. Yep animal muscles are a grat source of the compounds these trainers keep stressing you need to have.

gluconeogenesis to produce glucose from amino acids in the liver. The end result of this process? Hard earned muscle used as energy, and all potential gains becoming null and void.

seems they left out two other sources for parts for glucogeneses and didn't bother to tell you that using proteins to run the glucogenesis is the most energy demading of the 3 different sources. nor that actually mucle tissue is one of the last places the body will be looking for this amino acid as there is a supply kept in the body of free pool amino acids in muscles and 20 amion acids can be degraded to enter the TCA cycle as pyruvate for just such an occurance. seems they are trying to scare you guys to death.

here is a little amino acid lesson and as you can see excess levels of even protein 9which is comprised of chains of amino acids for all the nonscience majors reading) can be stored as fat!


All tissues have some capability for synthesis of the non-essential amino acids, amino acid remodeling, and conversion of non-amino acid carbon skeletons into amino acids and other derivatives that contain nitrogen. However, the liver is the major site of nitrogen metabolism in the body. In times of dietary surplus, the potentially toxic nitrogen of amino acids is eliminated via transaminations, deamination, and urea formation; the carbon skeletons are generally conserved as carbohydrate, via gluconeogenesis, or as fatty acid via fatty acid synthesis pathways. In this respect amino acids fall into three categories: glucogenic, ketogenic, or glucogenic and ketogenic. Glucogenic amino acids are those that give rise to a net production of pyruvate or TCA cycle intermediates, such as a-ketoglutarate or oxaloacetate, all of which are precursors to glucose via gluconeogenesis. All amino acids except lysine and leucine are at least partly glucogenic. Lysine and leucine are the only amino acids that are solely ketogenic, giving rise only to acetylCoA or acetoacetylCoA, neither of which can bring about net glucose production. A small group of amino acids comprised of isoleucine, phenylalanine, threonine, tryptophan, and tyrosine give rise to both glucose and fatty acid precursors and are thus characterized as being glucogenic and ketogenic. Finally, it should be recognized that amino acids have a third possible fate. During times of starvation the reduced carbon skeleton is used for energy production, with the result that it is oxidized to CO2 and H2O.

Oh and did you know that absolutely no mucles growth can occur unless some muscle tissue is degraded to make the esters needed for creating more muscle tissue?



Go read Lyle McDonald and them come back and we can have a discussion of muscle growth on Atkins.

[xven]

Re: Carbs for post-workout

There's just no winning with you, is there :P Good debate. Goddamn, your very well-versed with this stuff, 2big4mysize. However, all in all I've found a loophole to have the same effect insluin has in transporting protein after workout. It's ALA, which apparently simlulates insluin and get's the job of transporting nutrients into your muscle cells. This should work great! Just have to take it with the shake pwo and yada yada. Thanks for all the responses. And just to make a correction here, fruit after your workout is a horrible choice. Fructose fills your liver glycogen first, not your muscle.