Heavy, heavy fat

[Lurch]

I have had success with this diet before, Sadly I love beer. I am working on learning to hate it. It is not so much the beer but the fact that It makes me lower my guard and have other foods I should not.

Needless to say and i believe this 100% the more fat you shove in on this diet the faster you lose weight.

Today I had 1800 calorie Alone from Olive oil. or 3 1 once shots.

I must keep my protein high, I lift to hard and heavy in the gym to not eat my protein and waste a workout.

Has anyone else had the same results, More fat equal More fat loss?

[jmacguff]

Re: Heavy, heavy fat

hello lurch! newbie here....thanks for sharing a wonderful tip. yah ive seen in more than a couple of other threads here that 'more fat means more weight loss'. can i ask you how do you take in 1800 calories worth of olive oil? it's just that, im really having a hard time incorporating fat into my meals, im running out of ideas, and im just so sick of mayonnaise.

thanks for sharing!

[neutronnorman]

Re: Heavy, heavy fat

Hi Lurch:

Yup, it works the same way for me. I consume 3,500 calories per day, 65-70% are fat calories. Like you, I really hit the weights hard. As it is, I'm losing weight faster than I want. I, too, drink Olive oil in shot glasses, especially right before my post-workout protein drinks. I've been lifting weights since my twenties but took a lay-off for a few years.
I went back to school in the late 90's and graduated college in 2000. Since then I went to grad school and it's taken me 9 years to get my Ph.D. Since I'm a scientist, the last 3-4 years were brutal. I got involved in three research projects and that's when working out took a back seat. Also, I started drinking beer and vodka like a madman in my lab with my colleagues. The weight came on.

I started Atkins May 25. I weighed about 239 lb and currently I'm hovering at 225 lb. My body fat %, using Acu-measure calipers and the supraillic site indicates that I'm considered average. My goal is simple: 10-12% bodyfat at a bodyweight of around 200lb. I'm about six feet tall so I won't look like too much of a freak. I noticed yesterday, when stuffing myself with sashimi at the local sushi bar, that the chickie things were beginning to check me out already. Funny, I'm sure it's a genetic, survival thing. Man, I stuffed myself with sashimi, octopus, crab legs, mussels, shrimp and steak last night. At home, I ate 4oz. of aged Gouda cheese for a bedtime snack. I just weighed myself, while writing this post, and I gained about 4 lb overnight but my caliper measure reveals no change. It's probably water retention from all the sodium I ate last night.

I figured I ate close to 5000 calories yesterday but kept my carb level below 30%. It's been the highest CHO intake since pre AD. Liv will love this one, my protein intake was close to 220 grams. But what the heck, I was hungry.
I'm noticing my abs already. Yup, I'm developing a six pack. I forgot how lucky I am in that area. The muscles are even, instead of being staggered. They are symmetrically attached.

[Lurch]

Re: Heavy, heavy fat

I am tired of the mayonnaise myself. In the winter of 1996 When I discovered this diet I ate 1 jar a day. Today I take a 1 once shot glass of Clod Pressed Olive Oil. That is about 5 TBSP. Or 600 good fat calories.

This is the easiest way to get in all the fat, ans I am not about to cut down on my protein intake. I lift to heavy in the gym to deprive myself of the one thing it needs most.



QUOTE=jmacguff;1086331]hello lurch! newbie here....thanks for sharing a wonderful tip. yah ive seen in more than a couple of other threads here that 'more fat means more weight loss'. can i ask you how do you take in 1800 calories worth of olive oil? it's just that, im really having a hard time incorporating fat into my meals, im running out of ideas, and im just so sick of mayonnaise.

thanks for sharing![/QUOTE]

[liv]

Re: Heavy, heavy fat

You are trying to lose weight? I am a bit confused.
More of a good thing is not always better. Even though the excess fat you are consuming probably will not make you fatter if you are keeping carbs down, you will not lose that easily. It is better to aim for a calorie intake that is closer to what you are actually using a day.
I am not body builder (but I do have nice triceps ) But why on earth does anybody want to consume that much calories. I could drive around a whole day with my car on that much energy.

[not2late]

Re: Heavy, heavy fat

I am not body builder (but I do have nice triceps ) But why on earth does anybody want to consume that much calories. I could drive around a whole day with my car on that much energy.

Lucky you, liv. If I ate that amount, I would regain the 120 pounds I lost and gain another hundred more! But then I'm not physically capable of doing the intense exercise regimen Norman does daily. So I would store those calories rather than expend them. Besides, I'd probably go broke from the amount of money I'd spend on food. lol

[neutronnorman]

Re: Heavy, heavy fat

Lucky you, liv. If I ate that amount, I would regain the 120 pounds I lost and gain another hundred more! But then I'm not physically capable of doing the intense exercise regimen Norman does daily. So I would store those calories rather than expend them. Besides, I'd probably go broke from the amount of money I'd spend on food. lol

You're right about the food prices. I'm going broke eating. This morning, for breakfast, I had 1/2 pound chuck eye steak, 1000 mg. CLA, 4 slices bacon, 2 tablespoons olive oil and a partridge in a pear tree..whoops...wrong holiday...it's close to the 4th. of July. I brought with me today two cups raw spinach, 2 cups raw mixed greens tossed in 2 tablespoons olive oil, and one tablespoon vinegar. And for my protein / fat stuff: Atlantic pink salmon salad (2 servings mixed in with 2 tablespoons mayo and one hard boiled egg). I'll eat that about noon time, hit back, biceps and forearms around 2:00 p.m., then eat three more meals today: one post workout, supper and before going to bed.

[not2late]

Re: Heavy, heavy fat

You're right about the food prices. I'm going broke eating. This morning, for breakfast, I had 1/2 pound chuck eye steak, 1000 mg. CLA, 4 slices bacon, 2 tablespoons olive oil and a partridge in a pear tree..whoops...wrong holiday...it's close to the 4th. of July. I brought with me today two cups raw spinach, 2 cups raw mixed greens tossed in 2 tablespoons olive oil, and one tablespoon vinegar. And for my protein / fat stuff: Atlantic pink salmon salad (2 servings mixed in with 2 tablespoons mayo and one hard boiled egg). I'll eat that about noon time, hit back, biceps and forearms around 2:00 p.m., then eat three more meals today: one post workout, supper and before going to bed.

When I was at my start weight, I'm sure I could have eaten like that everyday. But now, even reading that makes my stomach churn in a bad way. My stomach has shrunk and I eat more normal portion sizes than I did back then at 240 + pounds. Come to mention it, I've shrunk to a size 8 too, so I don't mind so much about the shrinking.

[neutronnorman]

Re: Heavy, heavy fat

You went from a size 26 to a size 8? That's incredible. My hat's off to you. How does it make you feel psychologically?

[not2late]

Re: Heavy, heavy fat

You went from a size 26 to a size 8? That's incredible. My hat's off to you. How does it make you feel psychologically?

No different. I never allowed my weight to hold me back psychologically: I never used it as an excuse to not go to college or not interview for a job I wanted or walk up to a guy and talk to him.

I went into my weight loss journey because high blood pressure, strokes, diabetes, etc. runs rampant on both sides of my family and I didn't want to end up like everyone else---swallowing pills daily, getting hospitalized almost monthly, dying while walking to the mailbox, etc.

As I went along my Atkins, I saw my health improved: resting heart rate below 70, HDLs of 76, etc. Plus my allergies and asthma improved so I was able to go off nearly all of those medications. I still need a rescue inhaler on occasion, but it beats having to take daily medications. For me, weight loss is only a pleasant side effect of Atkins.

[Lurch]

Re: Heavy, heavy fat

You are trying to lose weight? I am a bit confused.
More of a good thing is not always better. Even though the excess fat you are consuming probably will not make you fatter if you are keeping carbs down, you will not lose that easily. It is better to aim for a calorie intake that is closer to what you are actually using a day.
I am not body builder (but I do have nice triceps ) But why on earth does anybody want to consume that much calories. I could drive around a whole day with my car on that much energy.

I am 6'5 and I power lifter. and Strong Man. Do you know what that means?

It means in under 1 hour I burn over 1000 calories in the gym.

I flip tires that are 780 pounds over and over again out in the 100 degree plus sun . Then I drag a sled across the concrete that is weighted down with 300 plus pounds on it. Or I may put a 200 lbs sand bag on my sholders and go for a 3 mile hike in one hour.

This is not you 30 minutes on the treadmill. This is serious dinosaur training.

The more fat you shove in the more fat you lose. I will swear by it. Fat lowers your insulin levels. Carbohydrates raise them. We control our bodies, Our bodies do not control us. We gain 15 lbs 6 days if we need to and we take off 15 in 10 days if we need to so we are at our weight requirements for a competition.

If I do nothing but sit on my but all day and watch TV I will lose weight on a 3000 calorie a day diet.

Muscle is 3 times denser than fat. Each lbs of muscle you gain your body need 100 - 150 extra calories a day to maintain it.

When you train you will understand. Monday will be Chest and back. My coach knows I am in ketosis. I get the navy seal workout. I know he will train me untill I blow chuncks. That is how you train if you want to lose serious weight.

That is why we eat, If we do not eat enough protein, than all of that exercise will have been for nothing.

I believe if you eat things that are hard, you become hard, if you eat things that are soft and mushy, you become soft and mushy.

It makes since

[Slapshot]

Re: Heavy, heavy fat

Each lbs of muscle you gain your body need 100 - 150 extra calories a day to maintain it.

I hate quibbling, but I wouldn't want someone to think if they added 5 lbs of muscle they can get away with eating an extra 500-750 cals per day to maintain the same basal number in light of the added muscle. Recent research has confirmed that the real number is closer to about 6 calories per day per lb of muscle. Even the older myths said something like 35-50.


One Pound of Muscle Does NOT Burn 50 Calories

The Myth about Muscle and Your Metabolic Rate

[jmacguff]

Re: Heavy, heavy fat

gosh this is so inspiring Megs!!!!!
congratulations!

[neutronnorman]

Re: Heavy, heavy fat

Lurch is totally correct. At 3500 calories per day, I started losing weight like a freakin' water balloon with a pinhole in it. The problem is that it is not water I'm losing, it's possibly 90% body fat and 10% muscle I'm burning. I've upped my calories to 4,500-5,000 daily now and am losing fat but gaining some solid weight. My supraillic skin fold measurements attest to it. Believe me, sets of squats and deadlifts at high resistance and low reps burn more calories than cardio. I carry about 180 lb of lean body mass. At 6 calories per day, that's 1080 calories extra I need just to maintain my LBM above my basal metabolic rate. Although my workouts are tame compared to Lurch's, I do target every week a large muscle group and powerlift the area with compound, basic movements. I'll go down to 3 reps but rarely perform singles. That's the only way to develop functional strength.

Here's the paradox: the more fat you consume, the more adipose tissue you melt away, but again I stress your workouts have to be at a high intensity level and you must be strong in order for it to work. We're not talking Pilates or resistance bands here, but squats at 80-90% of your one rep maximum for example. And your one rep maximum better be close to 300 lb. at the very least (for males). When I do low reps and heavy weights of squats it feels like I'm being stabbed by needles all over my body. I'm sure it's the spike in blood pressure that does it. Yes, there is a big fear element involved, but that's what makes you strong. When I start to reach muscle failure and the burn is incredible, I enter some form of meditative state, ignore my pain alarms, relax and let go, and I usually complete an additional 4-6 reps. It's almost transcendental. If I listened to my body at that point, my instinct for survival (really to remain in a comfort zone) would stop my reps telling me that I have reached muscular failure. Guess what? I haven't. There's the slow twitch fibers that I haven't inverated yet to the maximum.

Of course a high fat diet is questionable, but the trick is to consume healthy fats, and stay away from trans fats and hydrogenated oils, etc. Do not use coconut oils, they do not enter the lipolytic metabolic pathways and will derail your attempts in becoming an efficient fat oxidizer. I use olive oil, CLA, flax on occasion (flax is iffy, it can prove to be potentially harmful to the body, but I'm researching that one), fish oils, cod liver oil, etc.

About food: yes, fish is great, chicken, etc. But the main staple of your food intake should be red meat. If you eat enough red meat you can literally feel the energy increase and your muscles recuperating. Yesterday, I ate steak three times: breakfast, dinner and before going to bed.

I'm sure the high fat diet maximizes growth hormone and testosterone release, and yes, it works the same way in women. The problem with ketogenic diets is that insulin is not used as an anabolic tool. Insulin is a highly anabolic hormone. Shoot me for this one, but I believe that 2-3 weeks on an initial high fat / low carb diet followed by 12-48 hours of anything goes (pizza, pasta, beer, cereal, pastries, etc.) increase fat loss, drives amino acids and glycogen into the liver and muscles and enhances an anabolic response. Proceed with another 5 days plus of high fat / low carb and then carb up again for 1-2 days every week. It will not turn you back into a carb burner. The difficulty lies in learning what type of carbs (hi or low glycemic), the amount of fat (40% 0r lower),the amount of protein to ingest during the phase shift and how long you can do the carb load before entering a lipogenic metabolic phase. If you start a carb load, say on a Saturday morning, you stop immediately when you are feeling bloated or your hunger is through the roof. Take skin fold measurements and the moment you are laying down fat, stop! Return to a 60-70% fat, 37-40% protein, and keep carbs down at about 2-3%.
Monday and Tuesday you'll be a lot stronger, more focused and enthusiastic in the gym. By Tuesday or Wednesday, you'll look your best. You'll be firmer, more defined and feel great. In fact, every week you should see a slight improvement. Sorry out there, but that's the way a true ketogenic diet should be structured. I hope this post is moved into the exercise forum. I think that the Atkins phases and rungs are great for your average person trying to lose weight and firm up a bit, but it sks for a serious athlete or someone that wants to have the body of their dreams.

But, again, this forum has a wealth of information and the recipes posted are breaks from my Spartan dietary regimen.

By the way, I know I'll get a lot of grief for this post, but buddies, you probably never have had access to a university's research publication library where you can yank out and read journals written by real research people from Stanford, John Hopkins, Harvard, etc. Atkins was on the right track but he screwed up not incorporating insulin spikes into his diet plan. And also Atkins probably did not focus on elite, strength athletes trying to shift their body mass either up or down while retaining muscle so they can enter a different competitive weight class.

I don't want to hear opinions on this one, I'd rather see the scientific literature supporting your viewpoints. I can rack out pages of references on this one.

[jeff3298]

Re: Heavy, heavy fat

you should switch to Udo's Ultimate oil, Perfect blend of Omega's. You can find it at health food stores in the refrigerator section. Google "Udo's Oil" to find out more.