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  • #31
    Re: Low Carb Diets damage arteries?

    I mentioned the endothelium in my previous post. The endothelium is one big cell that forms the inner lining of an artery. This big cell can cause the artery to dilate, constrict and it even has regenerative properties. Most cardiovascular diseases are due to damage to the endotheliums of heart (coronary) arteries.

    Under normal conditions, a healthy endothelium will cause the artery to dilate as the blood flow through it (the artery) increases. This "normal" response can be influenced by certain drugs or substances (incl. meals), or the response can change depending on the health of the endothelium.

    To measure this response, scientists came up with the so-called flow-mediated vasodilation (FMD). By restricting blood flow through an artery (using a cuff, for humans) and then releasing the pressure, the blood will rush through the artery. Therefore, a healthy endothelium should dilate the artery. By comparing the initial size (diameter) of the artery (measured using ultrasounds) with the "after" size, scientists can tell how healthy/damaged the endothelium is or how a certain meal/diet affects its response.

    There are two kind of studies that are done to observe endothelium's response. (1) Longer term studies (a few weeks or more) that look how a diet affects the response. (2) Short term studies, where measurements are taken after different meals and all types of meals (high carb, low carb, high fat, low fat, etc.) are consumed by all subjects (to minimize biases caused by an individual's response to a particular meal type).

    An example for (1) is the study on mice posted by Brian, but that study doesn't look at the effect dietary fat has on FMD. Because the only macronutrients that changed from the "Western" diet to the LCHP diet were protein and carbohydrate, any of them (or none at all, for humans) could decrease FMD... although it's impossible to say exactly which does what. The researchers hypothesized that one of the reasons for the difference between the damage to the arteries caused by the "Western" diet and that caused by the LCHP diet is a decrease in FMD (examined in wild mice, so the kind that was not genetically modified) on the LCHP diet.

    There are a few (referenced!) studies looking at FMD changes in obese individuals. These studies compare a low-fat high-carbohydrate diet and a high-fat low-carbohydrate ("Atkins-style") diet.

    One such study was published last year in Hypertension by Phillips et al. Their experiment lasted 6 weeks. During these 6 weeks, they compared the effect on FMD of the American Heart Association (AHA) diet (30% fat; and to put things in context, Hypertension is AHA's journal) and of the "Atkins Diet". I'm writing "Atkins Diet" in quotes, because if any of those "Atkineers" (or any of the researchers, for that matter) would have been members at ADBB, I would have told them to read/re-read the book. So for the first 4 weeks of the diet, "Atkineers" were on a "weight reduction plan", where they had an estimated daily caloric deficit of 750 kcal and a carbohydrate (net?) intake of 20 g. In the last 2 weeks, they were on a "weight maintenance plan" --- the carb level stayed the same, 20 g, but Calories increased by 750 kcal (no caloric deficit). We are not told what foods were eaten during these 6 weeks (did they change in the last 2 weeks?); the only thing that is mentioned is that the LC diet was "supplemented with protein and fat content according to the Atkins' diet recommendation (DANDR 2002)" and that fat intake was in the range 55-65%. Both groups (HC and LC) had 10 subjects. Measurements at the end of the 6 weeks showed that subjects who followed the low-fat diet had a 34% improvement in brachial FMD, while those who followed the low-carb diet has their brachial FMD reduced by 14%. All subjects were overweight or obese, with BMIs in the range 29-39.

    A similar comparison was published in the same year by Keogh et al. in the British Journal of Nutrition. Keogh at el.'s study had 99 subjects (52 on a LC diet and 47 on a HC diet) with BMIs between 27 and 44, all having abdominal obesity. These are the two isocaloric diets used: AJCN -- Keogh et al. 87 (3): 567 Table 1. The LC diet consisted of 61% fat (20% saturated), 35% protein and 4% carbohydrate, while the HC diet was 30% fat (less than 8% saturated), 24% protein, 46% carbohydrate. The study lasted 8 weeks. Among a bunch of other things, and opposite to the results of Phillips et al., Keogh et al. found that
    [...] weight loss with an LC did not impair FMD or have any adverse effects on other measures of endothelial function. A number of markers of endothelial function (eg, E- and P selectin, ICAM-1, tPA, and PAI-I) were improved as a result of weight loss with the LC. To our knowledge this has not been reported previously.
    There are more studies out there if you're interested, but the others I found are either not relevant for Atkineers (are low-carb, high-protein), or don't have enough participants, or use different (less accurate) methods and can't be compared, or have very different accuracies/powers. I just picked the one that received the most media attention and used an "Atkins-style" diet (the first one) and the one that had most participants and looked at a high-fat, low-carb diet similar to OWL Rung 3 of Atkins (the second). The two studies above both have the same power.

    In the mice study posted by Brian, the authors say that another possible cause for atherosclerosis is a decrease in the number of endothelial progenitor cells. I'm not sure if this can be measured (legally, i.e. without killing anyone ) in humans and it's not clear to me if the two parameters (EPC count and FMD) are completely independent of each other (anyone knows?). In any case, since FMD measurements give different results in different human studies and the role diet plays is not yet understood, I would also be reluctant to extrapolate the result concerning the EPC count from mice to humans. Currently, there is no unambiguous proof that Atkins or an Atkins-style diet causes heart disease based on FMD (and definitely not based on serum lipid components). From what I read, it seems to me things other than simple macronutrient ratios also play an important role in the FMD.
    "Get action. Seize the moment. Man was never intended to become an oyster."

    -- Theodore Roosevelt

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    • #32
      Re: Low Carb Diets damage arteries?

      Thanks G

      Just wanted to mention that Jimmy Moore blogged on this study
      Jimmy Moore's Livin' La Vida Low Carb Blog
      Startdate: November 18, 2007. Female 5'2"

      May Challenges 2010
      Push-ups: 450/800
      Abs: 850/1900
      Squats: 650/1200
      Lunges: 500/1000
      Strength: 490/1200
      Running: 50/100 km


      2 Years on Atkins.................. President Challenge Medals earned

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      • #33
        Re: Low Carb Diets damage arteries?

        Originally posted by Dr. Vernon
        I would never plan my diet around what makes a mouse healthy — rodents just aren’t very good models for humans.
        Damn! I bought a whole bag of chow to have for dinner tonight. I was just going to post in the "What's for dinner tonight???" thread.
        "Get action. Seize the moment. Man was never intended to become an oyster."

        -- Theodore Roosevelt

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        • #34
          Re: Low Carb Diets damage arteries?

          Originally posted by Georgiana View Post
          Damn! I bought a whole bag of chow to have for dinner tonight. I was just going to post in the "What's for dinner tonight???" thread.
          Thanks but no thanks Georgiana, that chow tastes awful. I tried it when I was child. Yup, I've eaten dog food, cat food, etc. I was curious when a kid. I think I even tried fish chow.

          Has there been any long term studies done yet remotely related to low carb dieting?
          sigpic Me, at 195 lb. September 24, 2009. It's 5:30 a.m. and can't wait to hit the coffee.

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          • #35
            Re: Low Carb Diets damage arteries?

            I think this quote from Jimmy Morre's blog says it all - and is a perfect response to anyone who has read/heard about this study and tells you you are killing yourself by following this WOE:

            Dr. Volek summarized this so-called study in a pithy, yet thorough response.


            “Let’s put this paper into context – it used an unsuitable animal model to study the effects of a diet no one would consume and showed results opposite to that seen in a more suitable animal model and humans,” he stated.

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            • #36
              Re: Low Carb Diets damage arteries?

              The summary is good, but the entire article is quite interesting: http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/?p=5756

              In case that link doesn't work, go to http://livinglavidalowcarb.com/blog and look for this article: Mouse Study Claims Low-Carb Diet Leads To Atherosclerosis In Humans! Do They Really Think We’re That Stupid?



              F - 5' 4.53"

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              • #37
                Re: Low Carb Diets damage arteries?

                Originally posted by neutronnorman View Post
                Has there been any long term studies done yet remotely related to low carb dieting?
                I missed your question, sorry. What would you consider "long term" --- 6 months or more like... 6 years?
                "Get action. Seize the moment. Man was never intended to become an oyster."

                -- Theodore Roosevelt

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                • #38
                  Re: Low Carb Diets damage arteries?

                  Originally posted by Georgiana View Post
                  I missed your question, sorry. What would you consider "long term" --- 6 months or more like... 6 years?
                  At least a few years, G and with high n groups. I guess the Eskimos and I forgot what area if France should suffice for now (the French Paradox). I haven't had time to read the research on the mice. I don't know the statistics of the study, the confidence interval, etc.
                  sigpic Me, at 195 lb. September 24, 2009. It's 5:30 a.m. and can't wait to hit the coffee.

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                  • #39
                    Re: Low Carb Diets damage arteries?

                    Dr. Briffa blogged on using mice for human studies

                    Last edited by liv; August 29, 2009, 11:03 AM. Reason: spleling
                    Startdate: November 18, 2007. Female 5'2"

                    May Challenges 2010
                    Push-ups: 450/800
                    Abs: 850/1900
                    Squats: 650/1200
                    Lunges: 500/1000
                    Strength: 490/1200
                    Running: 50/100 km


                    2 Years on Atkins.................. President Challenge Medals earned

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Low Carb Diets damage arteries?

                      Adding a link to Dr. Eades blog on this paper. He also focus on mice and he mentions the BBC article specifically. It is a good one

                      Do statinators dream of engineered mice? | The Blog of Michael R. Eades, M.D.
                      Startdate: November 18, 2007. Female 5'2"

                      May Challenges 2010
                      Push-ups: 450/800
                      Abs: 850/1900
                      Squats: 650/1200
                      Lunges: 500/1000
                      Strength: 490/1200
                      Running: 50/100 km


                      2 Years on Atkins.................. President Challenge Medals earned

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Low Carb Diets damage arteries?

                        Originally posted by blog
                        I want to comment on something here as an aside. I don’t know how old Dr. Foo is, but since she’s working in someone else’s lab, I would think she’s probably fairly new to the medical game. She may have admitted a patient or two to the hospital with heart attacks, who, under questioning, may have admitted to following a low-carb diet at some point. But I’m willing to put my experience with low-carb diets up against hers any day. MD and I have followed over 10,000 patients on low-carb diets and have never had a single one have a heart attack. So, I really doubt that Dr. Foo has admitted many – if any – patients who are actively following a low-carb diet. But it does make for a good story.

                        Thought that paragraph pretty much said it all.
                        Name: Forrest
                        Gender: Male
                        Age: 43
                        Height: 5' 11"
                        Girth: 46"

                        Start Date: April 6, 2009

                        200 lbs or less... it's gonna happen

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