Fat and mondo calories- cant be a good thing

**cleochatra** · February 28, 2006, 02:06 PM

Re: Fat and mondo calories- cant be a good thing

I think some days are just "hungrier" than others. So long as this isn't a usual occurance, I wouldn't be concerned at all. If, OTOH, you stopped losing weight for any appreciable amount of time, then you could revisit those numbers. As a general rule, however, some days we're more hungry than others, and if you are eating to honestly assuage your hunger, you're feeding your body and not your fat cells.

**2big4mysize** · February 28, 2006, 02:30 PM

Re: Fat and mondo calories- cant be a good thing

I know this will anger some folk but ignore the calories and focus on feeding your hunger and learn what your hunger signals are as you do your induction and move to OWL. It is very hard to unlearn allthe bad stuff you have been told about fats making us fat but fats use more of their fuel in the body being converted to fuel then carbohydrates do. if youhad 10 grams of carbs they would use up the fuel in 4/10s of one gram getting them all to energy in your body. while thefats would use up lightly more then one gram getting them to fuel so as you can see even though we have all learned about the high cal of fats we didn't learn about the extra energy it takes to burn them up.
with the Atkins eating program you will get better results losing fat mass, scale weight and improving your health eating the higher cal total you saw then you would eating the lower cal total. for the entire Atkins way of eating vs the USDA high carb program you get about 25% more fuel burned just getting it from mouth to energy so don't fear those numbers.

Happy low carbing
use your fitday to trackyour carbs andstay under your limit as you procress on the Atkins WOE and climb the OWL carb ladder. you can see the ratio of your fats to proteins in the pie chart too as proteins can and will be converted to sugar in your body if you get too much of them in your eating.

**Savannah** · February 28, 2006, 02:55 PM

Re: Fat and mondo calories- cant be a good thing

Thanks for the info chaps but the debate still grumbles on. Id love to hear any other opinions too.

I wish it was just a hungry day, but i actually planned to eat this today. I thought the extra fat would be helpful. Its so hard ( and apparently incorrect according to Dr aTkins ) to do a low fat Atkins and keep calories down. High fat and low calorie are impossible.

I find i can eat less if the fat contect is really high . Ill experiment tomorrow and cut down the fat .

**2big4mysize** · February 28, 2006, 03:10 PM

Re: Fat and mondo calories- cant be a good thing

they feeling you are describing is from your ketosis and if you keep the fats high in the foods you consume you will keep that appetite suppression going. With it you can learn to hear your hunger signals and feed your body just what it needs for you to have raw materials to keep repairing yourself as you shed the fat mass you want to. remember it takes very littel fat to correct an under eatten fat day. Not2late has a topic up in the induction stickies about how little the acutal amount is arounf a teaspoon to a tablespoon and not sticks of butter as some think.

Happy low carbing.

**cleochatra** · February 28, 2006, 03:15 PM

Re: Fat and mondo calories- cant be a good thing

Personally, I've found it very easy to keep calories down while eating a high fat diet. I have to work very hard to eat more than 900 calories a day on Atkins. I think everyone is different, however.

**Heidi3** · February 28, 2006, 04:19 PM

Re: Fat and mondo calories- cant be a good thing

Originally posted by cleochatra

Personally, I've found it very easy to keep calories down while eating a high fat diet. I have to work very hard to eat more than 900 calories a day on Atkins. I think everyone is different, however.

of course you have 900 huh? wow...

before anyone thinks this is the norm for this board or for Atkins in general......it is not...no where in the book or on the Atkins plan is a 900 calorie a day diet advise..this is just someone who feels the need to push the envelope to get a point across ...of course the point is still a mystery to me as it is to many others...however it just seems to go on and on all over the board ...kind of like a troll as I see it.

Read the book it is pretty clear. ..very simple.....the entire point of Atkins is to learn how to eat well...in reasonable amounts until you are content and not full.

If you want to count calories ..no one here is telling anyone not to..what is being said is that that is not what this plan of eating is about...

if you want to do something else or advise another way of eating it would be great if you visited the sister board to talk about it ...because as long as this momentum continues you are confusing people who really want to try this the way it was designed...

900 calories a day hmmmm funny that my smaller body can manage so much more ......I think some one needs more food..or a wander guard...

**Heidi3** · February 28, 2006, 04:20 PM

Re: Fat and mondo calories- cant be a good thing

PS yup everyone is differant but this way of eating is pretty clear cut

**atkinsagain** · February 28, 2006, 04:42 PM

Re: Fat and mondo calories- cant be a good thing

Originally posted by Savannah

Thanks for the info chaps but the debate still grumbles on. Id love to hear any other opinions too.

I wish it was just a hungry day, but i actually planned to eat this today. I thought the extra fat would be helpful. Its so hard ( and apparently incorrect according to Dr aTkins ) to do a low fat Atkins and keep calories down. High fat and low calorie are impossible.

I find i can eat less if the fat contect is really high . Ill experiment tomorrow and cut down the fat .

Actually, I find it is very easy to do high fat/low calorie, although I'm not much for calorie counting. I just happen to know what my calories are because I use fit day to plug in what I eat, especially now while I'm moving up the rungs and want to track my carbs a little closer. I eat until I'm satisfied and most days it comes to about 1200 - 1300 calories per day. Is that not low enough for you? I think that is pretty low, but if for some reason I was still truly hungry, I'd eat more that day and not give it much thought from a calorie standpoint.

The greatest thing about Atkins to me is that I *can* satisfy my hunger on 1200-1300 calories a day by eating more fats and lose weight. Whereas on a low fat diet, 1200 calories a day wouldn't come close to satisfying it, I'd be miserable and fall off plan, finding myself weighing more than when I started.

**cypressgirl** · February 28, 2006, 05:27 PM

Re: Fat and mondo calories- cant be a good thing

Originally posted by Savannah

I have been eating a lot of butter, walnut oil and two BIG table spoons of mayo per day, not to mention my treat of cream with my coffee
Break: 1 egg with butter and coffee and cream
Lunch:1 egg with mackerel and 1 tbs mayo
Snack:25g goats cheese
Dinner. Shrimp and bacon fry up with brie 25g, celery and mange tout

Help

Are you including enough veggies? That is what stands out to me...Who cares about "toomuch fat" - no such thing, in my opinion. Higher fat tends to keep your calories lower simply because you are satisfied. Your calories and actually, overall food intake, seem very low to me. As long as you aren't hungry and the weight is dropping, go you! BUT, I wouldn't neglect the veggies!

**MotherOfGizmo** · March 1, 2006, 07:35 AM

Re: Fat and mondo calories- cant be a good thing

I agree that starvation level calories is NOT Atkins!

You will do more harm to yourself by starving it, than good. And when you start eating a normal amount of calories likeyou're susposed to, you will just regain whatever weight you may have lost. Your body will start holding on to and storing every calorie for fear of another bout of starvation!

**ladyinred** · March 1, 2006, 07:43 AM

Re: Fat and mondo calories- cant be a good thing

I agree about the veggies. Where are they? You need them so make sure you are eating them. Other than that, your menu looks fine. When I first started Atkins I think I averaged about 2000 cals a day. Now when I put the figures into Fitday for random checks, it's between 1300 and 1700 because, as Cleo says, some days are hungrier than others. Do you have the book? If you read the book and understand the science behind it, you won't worry about the fat and calories so much.

**Heidi3** · March 1, 2006, 09:14 AM

Re: Fat and mondo calories- cant be a good thing

I think the most brilliant part of eating this way is that you get to eat!!!! If you follow this program the hunger does die..and not every day will be the same ...of course...You get so many choices and it is fun to find what you can eat instead of fretting over what you can't. Most people who have a weight problem ..if you look at the diet they are eating a lot of "empty" calories....you can eat a loaf of white bread be hungry in an hour...you can eat the same number of calories in solid good foods as directed in the book and loose weight ...calories are fuel but is it cheap fuel you are using or good fuel...we deserve premium ..
if you pay attention to portion and size and listen to your body..all a learning process that does take time..you will get this right..acheive a lifetime of good habits and find the processs easy not difficult .....by starving yourself on a diet of 900 calories you may acheive thinness but you have learned nothing about eating....and no matter what studies are shown as "proof" (you can find cut and paste anything to prove a point) .....there is no way you will get the nutrition or long term satisfaction you need......
also something to consider is ..are you drinking enough water? yes are you eating your veggies...and are you feeding actual hunger or is something else going on..sometimes people with reflux or that take too much aspirin or ibuprofen have the sensation of hunger with out actually needing to eat....
no one here is condemning anyone for counting calories...it is just that the Atkins plan is not about that ....if you want to promote that idea then do it in the appropriate venue ....

good luck

**Brook** · March 1, 2006, 09:38 AM

Re: Fat and mondo calories- cant be a good thing

Originally posted by Heidi3

of course you have 900 huh? wow...

before anyone thinks this is the norm for this board or for Atkins in general......it is not...no where in the book or on the Atkins plan is a 900 calorie a day diet advise..this is just someone who feels the need to push the envelope to get a point across ...of course the point is still a mystery to me as it is to many others...however it just seems to go on and on all over the board ...kind of like a troll as I see it.

No where in the book does it say it's okay to snarf down 2000-3000 calories a day either, but I've seen people list that as their daily calorie intake without so much as a raised eyebrow. Double edged sword, if you ask me.

Read the book it is pretty clear. ..very simple.....the entire point of Atkins is to learn how to eat well...in reasonable amounts until you are content and not full.

The entire point of Atkins is indeed to learn to eat well and in reasonable amounts- but that's as individual as the person following it. What might be reasonable for you may be completely unreasonable for me. While the basic tennets of the program are the same for everyone, there's a huge swath for personalization of the program. Remarkably, I happen to know that Cleo has her doctor's clearance to do what she's doing. Where is your basis for judgement on that?!

If you want to count calories ..no one here is telling anyone not to..what is being said is that that is not what this plan of eating is about...

FOR YOU. That may not be the case FOR YOU. Dr. Atkins never said calories don't count - he said we didn't have to count calories. I think we can all agree on that. However, it's ridiculous to think that there isn't a large amount of people who DO need to watch their calorie intake on top of watching their carb intake because their recognition of appetite and ability to adhere to the plan just by their appetite is a function that's been broken in them for a long, long time. - Yours truly included.

There is a SOUND and LOGICAL arguement for portion control/calorie monitering. If you don't need to do it, I think that's fantastic, but I think it's pretty presumptious to say that no one does. You aren't me and would have less than ZERO way to speak with any kind of authority on what I need.

<snip>...because as long as this momentum continues you are confusing people who really want to try this the way it was designed...

????
What's confusing about following the program?! And what about anything that was said here is contradictory to Dr. Atkins plan?!

900 calories a day hmmmm funny that my smaller body can manage so much more ......I think some one needs more food..or a wander guard...

My body can handle significantly more than 900 calories a day, but by your own statements one should eat to satisfy appetite. If 900 calories a day does it, what are you twitching about?!

"Starvation mode" as some like to call it is a debatable metabolic phenomenon at best - it's not a scientific fact of any kind. People who are obese are not at risk for "throwing themselves into starvation mode". Their bodies carry enough body fat on them to fuel them and their activities just fine - which is why some people can eat much lower calorie and be just fine. Cleo's losses certainly don't represent someone who is having trouble losing the fat. She's not on here posting about being hungry - quite the opposite actually. She's a glowing example showing that not only can it be done, but done well and satisfactorily.

We can each only speak from our personal experiences and they're bound to be different.

My personal experiences tell me that I do just fine following my appetite, and on any given day that might take me from 800 calories to 1800 calories. - And in doing so I'd still be doing exactly what you're talking about; eating to satisfy my appetite. There did come a time for me when calorie counting/reduction was required for me to continue to meet my fat loss goals.

Lots of newbies are scared to death when they see their numbers for the first time. Their natural reaction is to start counting and obsessing - most of them are already obsessing about what they put in their mouths anyway because the eating plan is so different what what they have known for years. Storming in here bashing what works for one person (who is STILL following the program by all accounts) and touting that just because YOU never had to count calories must mean no one ever has to doesn't bring anything of value to the table or discussion. If calorie counting makes someone comfortable, educating them about why Atkineers can eat more calories seems like the most logical thing to do. If eating 900 calories a day satisfies them, then who are we to make ANY kind of judgement on that?!

If someone was presenting at 900 calories a day consistantly and reporting issues of any kind - then okay - we've got something to talk about. But that's not the case here.

The OP is about 125lbs. It's commonly accepted as truth that for weight loss one should stick to between 10-12X their weight in calories. There's nothing shocking or unusual about her thinking that 1400 calories for the day would be a lot for weight loss. With the Atkins metabolic advantage and exercise, I'd say it's unlikely that 1400 calories is an issue - but then I don't know the OP's dieting, health, or exercise history so I can't really make an educated guess.

I'm chuckling about the portion sizes comments though. It's semantics.
PORTION CONTROL=CALORIE CONTROL

You have no right whatsoever to spout about what someone else has learned about anything, let alone eating, and what they haven't. I'd have finished reading the rest of your posts, but frankly, they come across as condescending. Believe it or not, you really don't know it all and don't know all there is to know about the people you're talking about. Shocking, I'm sure.

The the OP: It really is okay to eat until you're satisfied. As ketosis kicks in, you'll likely find that your appetite decreases significantly. If counting calories floats your boat, keep doing what works for you - personally I find it to be a great way to keep on top of not only how much I'm eating but the composition of it. It also gives me a gauge with which to see what works best for me and where I feel best.

Keep on keepin' on.
~Brook

**Savannah** · March 1, 2006, 10:00 AM

Re: Fat and mondo calories- cant be a good thing

Brooke, thanks for those passionate titbits of advice. And to everyone else.

As a newbie I must admit that I find Brookes reasoning more comforting, i know my body and i know that it needs more exercise than most and that if i consume a lot of calories , i feel awful . Perhaps its more pyschological at the moment , still getting used to this way of eating.

I will try not to be alarmed as you have all suggested if some days have higher calorie intakes than others but im going to try and keep the calories at a level i think best suits me.

Control freak i guess! But its good to know that this is also a concern for others. I believe that Atkineers with less to lose should be more careful closer to target with calories.

Wish me luck , im weighing on Friday and then i ll let you know if its calroes or no calories.

Cheers

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