Jay Robb whey protein powder on induction/atkins??

[Carboholic]

Would someone be able to tell me if I can use Jay Robb whey protein shakes or powder on induction or even Atkins? I purchased 2 very large tubs of this powder while trying Wendy Chant's WOE and don't want to waste it. I would primarily use it on induction for some of Cleo's recipe where she uses protein powder. After induction, I would like to use it occasionally for a on-the-run emergency only snack/meal. I just want to use up the supply.

Ingredients are: Cold-pressed cross-flow microfiltered whey protein isolate, natural flavor, xanthan gum, lecithin, stevia.

If this is ok on induction or after induction, does anyone have some good recipes to use it? I have chocolate and vanilla flavored.

Thanks!

[Chef Kevin]

Re: Jay Robb whey protein powder on induction/atkins??

As a rule, I avoid all powders/shakes/bars.
Remember, too much protein and your body converts it to glucose.
Also, induction really is about eating real foods.
Having said that...

I guess you could work it in, but you would have to balance it with plenty of fat. maybe with cream or something.

I think it would be tough to do honestly. Might even make you hungrier from altering your blood sugar, causing cravings.

Just my 2 cents.
~Chef

[liv]

Re: Jay Robb whey protein powder on induction/atkins??

Whey is a dairy product so once you get to rung 2 you should be fine with it.
I drink a protein drinks for breakfast some days if I exercise and that is what I have time for. I really like it actually and would probably have it a lot - except as Kevin says - have to watch the protein content somewhat and YES eating whole foods is the best way to go. I mix mine with some cream (to get up the fat content), decaf and cocoa powder.

[oopsiedoop]

Re: Jay Robb whey protein powder on induction/atkins??

So, why up the fat? Isn't the protein that makes for weightloss?

[Georgiana]

Re: Jay Robb whey protein powder on induction/atkins??

So, why up the fat? Isn't the protein that makes for weightloss?

Atkins is a high fat diet, not a high protein one. During Induction, your body switches from primarily burning glucose for energy to burning fatty acids (which result when you break down lipids -- so one gets fatty acids and also glycerol). But to have these fatty acids your body uses to get its "fuel", you have to eat a certain amount of fat. For Induction, the percentages you should aim for are 65% fat, 5% carbs and 30% protein.

[oopsiedoop]

Re: Jay Robb whey protein powder on induction/atkins??

You're kidding! I did not know that! So the way for me to do this more successfully is LESS protein, MORE fat? For instance eat a smaller piece of steak but fry it in oil or something? Eat eggs only with Hollandaise sauce? Make sure I eat my alloted veggies with dressing? Stuff like that?

[Georgiana]

Re: Jay Robb whey protein powder on induction/atkins??

That's right!

Use FitDay to track your foods. Enter a few menus and tweak them to make sure you keep your fat intake high. Here's the link to FitDay: FitDay - Free Weight Loss and Diet Journal

There is no limit on protein (in terms of quantity), but excess protein is converted into glucose (a form of sugar). So what you need is high fat, moderate protein, low carb (see the percentages above).

[oopsiedoop]

Re: Jay Robb whey protein powder on induction/atkins??

That site absolutely ROCKS. I can't believe it's free.

So excess fat is not converted to sugar? I have been reading that. This is going to change my life. Naturally if this doesn't work I will start counting calories in conjunction though. And I can live with that -- calories count but in the right proportions -- proportions that go against everything diet gurus have been saying and that I have tried with no success. I read Atkins a long time ago and I've been researching it on the internet but I never heard this essential component. I thought it was just about limiting carbs but there's more to it. There's more to understand. Let me ask this then: say my fat/protein ratio is the opposite of what you suggested, BUT I'm still not over my limit of protein (which is not exactly known as far as I've read .. is it?). Will I gain weight or just not lose or is it possible I will still lose weight due to .. well limiting my carbs?

[Georgiana]

Re: Jay Robb whey protein powder on induction/atkins??

So excess fat is not converted to sugar? I have been reading that. This is going to change my life. Naturally if this doesn't work I will start counting calories in conjunction though. And I can live with that -- calories count but in the right proportions -- proportions that go against everything diet gurus have been saying and that I have tried with no success. I read Atkins a long time ago and I've been researching it on the internet but I never heard this essential component. I thought it was just about limiting carbs but there's more to it. There's more to understand. Let me ask this then: say my fat/protein ratio is the opposite of what you suggested, BUT I'm still not over my limit of protein (which is not exactly known as far as I've read .. is it?). Will I gain weight or just not lose or is it possible I will still lose weight due to .. well limiting my carbs?

Okay, let's see. I'll break down your post into several questions.

1. Is excess fat converted into sugar?

No. While this happens in plants, mammals simply do not have the mechanisms needed to convert fat into glucose.

Now what happens to excess fat. Depends how you define "excess". It is true that Dr. Atkins said we do not necessarily have to count calories. However, he also said we should eat only to satisfy our hunger, without stuffing ourselves -- our bodies "know" how many calories they need, without us trying to eat 1200, 1500 or 2000 calories every day. If you listen to what the body is telling you, you'll end up with 1200-calorie days, but also with 2500-calorie days. On Atkins, you also have a so-called "metabolic advantage". A study published in 2004 has shown that men on a controlled carbohydrate diet can consume approximately 300 calories per day more than those on a standard diet and have the same weight maintenance results. However, while you can indeed eat a few hundred calories more than someone on, let's say, a low-fat diet, consuming more than what you are burning will be nevertheless stored as fat. But as I've said, as long as you eat only when you are hungry (or have gone 6 h without eating) and don't gorge yourself, you'll be fine. Many of us have an overeating problem though, in which case we have to pay extra attention to distinguish between being hungry and eating something just 'cuz it's on our plate.

2. What if you "invert" the fat/protein ratio?

Those percentages are not written in stone. They are approximate numbers that people found by analyzing the menus in the book, but Dr. Atkins never mentioned them in the book. So you do not have to be at a "perfect" 65-5-30 every single day. However, keep in mind that fat has 9 calories/gram, while protein has only 4. This means that if you keep your fat intake low, you either have to eat a very limited number of calories (with the risk of putting your body into "starvation mode") or go over your carbohydrate limit or overeat protein. Which brings me to the third question...

3. What happens to excess protein?

Again, it depends how one defines "excess" -- there is indeed no limit set on this number, at least as far as I know. Protein catabolism involves the production of amino acids. These amino acids have several functions: some will be used for the synthesis of other amino acids, some will be used by the muscles, while some will enter into the Krebs cycle, where they will be used for energy (ATP) metabolism.

When you restrict your carbohydrate intake, your body gets its energy from ketones. One way to produce ketone bodies is via fat oxidation; another is from amino acids (that's why body builders can be in ketosis even when they keep their fat intake low). However, oxidizing fat requires less energy expenditure, so it will be the preferred path -- as long as there is fat available, it is fat that will be used to make ketones. On the other hand, when fat is "missing", glucogenic amino acids like alanine and glutamine may be released into the blood stream at concentrations significantly above those found in muscle proteins. When this happens, these two amino acids will undergo gluconeogenesis -- alanine in the liver (fast rate), glutamine in the kidneys (slow rate) -- thus being converted into glucose.

So, long story short. If you restrict your fat and carbohydrate intakes, some amino acids will go into glucose. The efficiency at which this happens or the amount of protein you have to eat for the process to give you a "sugar spike" are things that depend on each person.

4. Will you lose weight if you do no overeat protein, but keep your fat and carbohydrate intakes low... something like 30% fat, 5% carbs, 65% protein?

Let's make a rough assumption and say one needs 1 g protein per kg of body weight. For a person who weights 100 kg, this would mean 100 g of protein. 1 g of protein is 4 calories, so 100 g are 400 calories. If 400 calories represent 65% of your total caloric intake, this means you would have to eat 615 calories per day. This will put your body into starvation mode even if you all day. Not to mention how hungry you'd be.

Fat will keep you full between meals and it will give you energy since producing ketone bodies (=fuel) from lipids is more efficient than producing them from protein. It will also make food taste better.

I assume you are just starting Atkins. If you want others to have a look over your meals and make suggestions, you can post one or two menus (including quantities) in the "Review My Menu" forum. Here's the link to it: Review My Menu - Atkins Diet

[OrigamiFrog]

Re: Jay Robb whey protein powder on induction/atkins??

^^^^^^^ SCIENCE!!

Good stuff to know. Thanks.

[oopsiedoop]

Re: Jay Robb whey protein powder on induction/atkins??

I'd rather not post a menu until I at least think I understand the principles myself, because otherwise it will get too confusing when people say "take this out" or "have more of this", etc. and I'll either be restricting myself unnecessarily (and like in this fat case, even to the detriment of my success) or substitute something that I think is ok thanks to what someone said about a certain food. I mean it's still confusing, but only understanding the principles will get me out of that.

I hate to tell my Atkins story because it's not a success and I am really heartbroken since I've tried everything else. I feel like if I just say it there will be people pointing out things that make me confused and will cause me greater frustration because of what I said above. Also I can't remember everything really well. But basically I lost quite a few pounds the first week, then it slowed down to maybe 1/2 a pound a week. Then after maybe 4 weeks or so on the diet I overate carbs at my nephew's birthday party, thinking I would gain a few pounds back but it would be worth it. To my horror, I gained EVERYTHING back, but what's far, far worse, I have NOT BEEN ABLE TO LOSE IT AGAIN. Now this is the part where everyone starts asking questions that make me frustrated. Except for that cheat, I have been eating 20 carbs a day throughout and still do. Other than that, I was not measuring my fat or protein, thinking it didn't matter. Some days I eat a lot, some days not as much. It hasn't mattered.

I have one more question right now. Since the rough ideal is 65/35 fat/protein, say my requirement for maintenance is 1,650 calories a day (I use this number because it's what FitDay told me). Therefore, I really only need about 600!!! calories of protein a day, and that's just for maintenance, not weightloss!! Leaving out the 5 percent of veggies, which is truly minimal, that's only about 600 calories of real food!!!! If this is true, no wonder I'm not losing weight, since it seems that calories DO count on this diet. The exact number may be 300 calories higher than on a different diet, but due to the fat/protein (not to mention carb) ratios, it still comes out to far, far, FAR less real (meaning solid) food than on those, especially for a middle aged sedentary female like me, whose caloric requirements are very low. The ratios essentially translate to mean that it's 300 calories of fat, not protein or carbs, not solid food, that is available (or even, required) on Atkins. I'd much rather eat an extra 4 oz. of food than three tablespoons of fat, and not only that, but I'd rather just eat more food period, by counting calories and leaving out most of the fat, but that hasn't worked. Therefore my only hope is to feel famished on Atkins as well as exercise like crazy, at least until I get used to eating what amounts to, for most people, very, very little.

[Georgiana]

Re: Jay Robb whey protein powder on induction/atkins??

I have one more question right now. Since the rough ideal is 65/35 fat/protein, say my requirement for maintenance is 1,650 calories a day (I use this number because it's what FitDay told me). Therefore, I really only need about 600!!! calories of protein a day, and that's just for maintenance, not weightloss!! Leaving out the 5 percent of veggies, which is truly minimal, that's only about 600 calories of real food!!!! If this is true, no wonder I'm not losing weight, since it seems that calories DO count on this diet. The exact number may be 300 calories higher than on a different diet, but due to the fat/protein (not to mention carb) ratios, it still comes out to far, far, FAR less real (meaning solid) food than on those, especially for a middle aged sedentary female like me, whose caloric requirements are very low. Therefore my only hope is again to starve and exercise like crazy, even on Atkins.

What do you mean by 600 calories of real food? No food is made only of protein and eating fat does not necessarily mean eating tablespoons of oil. For example, an egg has something like 63% fat and 34% protein. Cauliflower with butter will add more to your fat intake. Meat has fat too. And there are many other examples.

Dr. Atkins wrote that exercise is "not negotiable". Unless one is confined to bed, exercise should be part of any healthy lifestyle.

I'm not sure if I have answered your question...

[oopsiedoop]

Re: Jay Robb whey protein powder on induction/atkins??

Well it comes down to needing to reduce calories along with carbs as well as the ratio of fat to protein -- in short, the entire Atkins plan. I can eat very little food if I have to eat 65 percent fat AND watch the total calories. Forget about the solid I guess, might be confusing. I just meant that if I were able to eat lean protein (not to mention carbs) and leave out or have very little fat I could eat a reasonable amount even on a low calorie diet, but having to make 65 percent of those calories fat leaving only 35 percent of anything else makes that 35 percent a very low quantity of food if you also have to watch calories. The extra 300 calories is necessarily going to work out to come from the high fat in the food I eat, not in more food, and in fact overall, I will have to reduce everything else -- protein, and obviously carbs, to far less than I would eat on another diet if I have to also watch my calories. Is that clearer?

[Georgiana]

Re: Jay Robb whey protein powder on induction/atkins??

Here is a sample menu for Induction.

Breakfast
omelet made from 2 eggs, cooked in butter and filled with 1/2 cup sauteed mushrooms mixed with 1 tbsp sour cream and some parsley

Snack
1 oz cheddar

Lunch
1 roasted chicken leg with garlic
1 cup cauliflower with 1 tbsp of butter

Snack
1/2 avocado (black skin)

Dinner
6 oz pork steak
1.5 cup salad (1/2 cup lettuce, 1/2 cup cucumber, 1/2 cup red, yellow and green peppers, 7 olives, 1 oz feta cheese, lemon juice or vinegar, olive oil)

There is quite a lot of solid food in this menu. It has 1461 calories, 12.7 g net carbs (with 8.2 g coming from vegetables), 64% fat, 6% carbohydrate and 30% protein.

You do not have to watch calories. As long as you eat only when you are hungry and only the amount you need to satisfy your hunger, then your body will know how many calories it needs without you having to keep an eye on the number.

[SunnySmile501]

Re: Jay Robb whey protein powder on induction/atkins??

Eating lean protein to keep your calories down is the exact wrong thing to do. Fat will speed up your metabolism so you can consume more calories. That's the low carb advantage. You don't get into ketosis by the ratio of protein to carbs. You get into ketosis according to the ratio or fat to carbs.

Have you ever heard of Rabbit-starvation?

In fact, the one warning we could give you about meat is not to eat it lean. In spite of claims to the contrary, the diet of the cave man was not one of lean meat. Paleolithic man always ate his meat with fat.
Vilhjalmur Stefansson, who spent many years living with the Eskimos and Indians of Northern Canada, reports that wild male ruminants like elk and caribou carry a large slab of back fat, weighing as much as 40 to 50 pounds. The Indians and Eskimo hunted older male animals preferentially because they wanted this backslab fat, as well as the highly saturated fat found around the kidneys. Other groups used blubber from sea mammals like seal and walrus.

"The groups that depend on the blubber animals are the most fortunate in the hunting way of life," wrote Stefansson, "for they never suffer from fat-hunger. This trouble is worst, so far as North America is concerned, among those forest Indians who depend at times on rabbits, the leanest animal in the North, and who develop the extreme fat-hunger known as rabbit-starvation. Rabbit eaters, if they have no fat from another source-beaver, moose, fish-will develop diarrhea in about a week, with headache, lassitude, a vague discomfort. If there are enough rabbits, the people eat till their stomachs are distended; but no matter how much they eat they feel unsatisfied. Some think a man will die sooner if he eats continually of fat-free meat than if he eats nothing, but this is a belief on which sufficient evidence for a decision has not been gathered in the north. Deaths from rabbit-starvation, or from the eating of other skinny meat, are rare; for everyone understands the principle, and any possible preventive steps are naturally taken."29

Normally, according to Stefansson, the diet consisted of dried or cured meat "eaten with fat," namely the highly saturated cavity and back slab fat that could be easily separated from the animal. Another Arctic explorer, Hugh Brody, reports that Eskimos ate raw liver mixed with small pieces of fat and that strips of dried or smoked meat were "spread with fat or lard."30 Pemmican, a highly concentrated travel food, was a mixture of lean dried buffalo meat and highly saturated buffalo fat. (Buffalo fat, by the way, is more saturated than beef fat.) Less than two pounds of pemmican per day could sustain a man doing hard physical labor. The ratio of fat to protein in pemmican was 80% to 20%. As lean meat from game animals was often given to the dogs, there is no reason to suppose that everyday fare did not have the same proportions: 80% fat (mostly highly saturated fat) to 20% protein-in a population in which heart disease and cancer were nonexistent.
http://www.westonaprice.org/mythstruths/mtbeef.html


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