"One Golden Shot"

[2big4mysize]

Peele, S. (2004, May/June), The surprising truth about addiction. Psychology Today, pp. 43-46 did just that

[carli]

ketosis

i have tried going on atkins in the past but don't think i've ever got into ketosis because i just ate and ate loads of meat had a big of problem with over eating! my hunger didn't ever diminis or breath was not bad as my mum would have pulled me up! ha . i have gone from eating loads of meat and other atkins foods for longest was on it about 7 days then started eating loads of fruit and dairy again and carbs, would i already have had my Golden chance! or if didn't enter that ketosis stage do i still have it to come. am trying the atkins now again focusing more or fats rather than meat now. although i'm still trying to kick the coffee and sodas fine with the food though looking forward to not feeling like i want to eat that would be a miricale. how can i make sure i hit ketosis whats the most important part of the diet to hit this

[G-Mom]

BTW..not to take away from a great discussion but GMom you look fabulous! I can't believe the difference it's an absolute inspiration and I really applaud your sensational success!

Thank you Peter, how very sweet!!! :hug

perhaps I missed it but I didn't see anything in that article about food addiction as athe cause of the next time being harder.

I think Peter was doing what you were doing and purporting a possible cause for the difficulty the next time around. Unless I missed it, I didn't see the article saying anything about more fat mass to muscle mass as being the reason for this phenomenon. That astute statement was purported by you (and definitely a viable contributor).

Also, Peter, 2big doesn't like to mince words and she is a just the facts ma'am ma'am. I think she never meant to say that quitting an addiction is easy, but the process for quitting the addiction is basic. It comes down to mind over matter. You want to stay on the wagon and fight the urges or you break down in weakness. Our carb addiction is very much more difficult because carbs are the monsters we MUST keep around in the cage and learn to live with them, choosing the best ones to eat. You can clear alcohol and drugs out and never put them back, you can't do that with all carb foods.

[Peterlock]

Hi GMom,

With the exception of addictions that are "habits" - and there is a huge difference, it's easy to mistake one for the other. Addictions are more often than not anything but a question of "mind over matter"

This perception is also believed by many people with regard to depression, the feeling is if it doesn't show up on an x-ray it's not really a disease. But telling a clinically depressed person to "just snap out of it" is the equivalent of telling someone with shattered legs to use their willpower and just get up out of bed and dance.

Recovery from addiction isn't always a choice left solely to the addict..it's a slippery slope for both addict and attending health care professional alike. Many alcoholics cannot stop drinking cold turkey without running a risk of dying unless they're bombarded with anti seizure and a plethora of other medications - if they stop cold turkey, they die -period.

Is the reality for all alcoholics, of course not - but for enough of them to be significant.

When I was being detoxed many years ago from an eleven year Xanax addiction I was on a tremendous amount of medications to prevent my death during detox which lasted a grueling 6 months with the critical period of detox being the first 8 weeks.

During my stay at the Norwalk Hospital (Yale Affiliate Hospital) I became fast and wonderful friends with a young oncology student named Marylyn - we had both been taking the same lethal dose of Xanax her for 6 years and I for eleven. Both of us were taking 1,800 mg of Neurontin to prevent seizure so we had an awful lot in common both within the world of our addiction, it's treatment and beyond.

I survived my detox and moved into rehabilitation however Marylyn did not - she siezured and died.

When 2Big or anyone else, refers to some obscure article about addiction or depression that promotes a mindset that I know is a lie and a dangerous lie - Yes, I do take it personally in the sense that one article does not and never can invalidate the monumental mountain of data regarding Addiction and my own personal experience.

What is more, consider Dr. Atkins for a moment - by 1972 10,000 people had achieved significant results o Dr. Atkins diet, countless laboratory findings and clinical research studies supported his claims - the fact that thousands of people were living proof of his at the time, ten year hypothesis was the icing on the low carb cake.

However, despite the research, despite the documentation and despite the 99% success rate of his patients - in 1973 the AMA issued a press release accusing Atkins of being a charlatan and his diet a dangerous fad.

How wrong they were, and how many people have suffered and died due to the Medical communities pigeonholing of a concept that saved lives.

To me, issues of addiction and depression are ones I'm well familiar with and knowledgable about. I study these issues, speak on them and write about them.

A cavalier attitude about either Depression or Addiction poses both risk and confusion to anyone on this board suffering from either and that's a very, very dangerous approach for anyone here to take.

Peter ha

[Desertthorn]

What a great post and good discussion. I don't believe in the one shot but I do know from experience that for some reason we don't do as well the second time around. It seems to take more effort to lose the weight.

[2big4mysize]

Seems somebody didn't bother to read the article nor check out whio the author actualy is

Dr. Peele has long been an iconoclast in the addiction field, beginning with the publication in 1975 of his classic work, "Love and Addiction."

He challenges the idea of addiction as a disease, 12-Step orthodoxy and the concept of the "high jacked brain."

He is both a psychologist and an attorney. In his various articles and books such as "Diseasing of America", "Meaning of Addiction", "The Truth About Addiction and Recovery", and, with co-authors Archie Brodsky and Charles Bufe, "Resisting 12-Step Coercion", he has explored how most drug users do not become addicted, how most addicts recover without treatment, how addictive patterns characterize many compulsions aside from drug use, how treatment in America is often more about moralism and zero-tolerance than about actually improving the lives of substance users and addicts.

Those interested in addiction should be aware of his contrarian views, their growing acceptance and the evidence he presents.

Drug Policy forum of Texas

In 7 Tools to Beat Addiction, internationally recognized addiction expert Dr. Stanton Peele presents a program for addiction recovery, based on years of research and clinical study and grounded in science. His program builds on the proven methods that people have actually used to overcome addiction, with or without treatment.

Drug Policy Alliance

peer reviews of his work 7 Tools to Beat Addiction

“This volume presents a revolutionary approach to the treatment of addictive disorders. It provides clear helpful suggestions for controlling these problems and should be of enormous help to people struggling with them.” --Aaron T. Beck, M.D., Professor of Psychiatry, University of Pennsylvania

"This refreshing approach to practical self-change is a valuable alternative for those who are seeking an alternative to the 12-Step approach and the disease model of addiction. I recommend it highly." --G. Alan Marlatt, Ph.D., Professor and Director, Addictive Behaviors Research Center, University of Washington

“In 7 Tools to Beat Addiction Dr. Stanton Peele offers a provocative, take-charge message--one that is consistent with scientific evidence--for how to overcome addictions. Dr. Peele's work has influenced my professional work and changed my personal life for the better. --Anne M. Fletcher, MS, RD, LD. Author, Sober for Good

“[Peele’s] words offer encouragement and optimism unavailable in other approaches. Mental health professionals and the loved ones of addicts can gain a completely new perspective filled with insight, compassion, and genuine understanding Instead of writing another book about treating addiction, Dr. Peele has fashioned a manual for building a meaningful life.” --Mitchell Earleywine, Ph.D., Associate Professor, Department of Psychology, University of Southern California; author of Understanding Marijuana

“Dr. Peele combines knowledge, compassion, and common sense to create a book that will surely bring hope and help to all people suffering with alcohol and other drug problems.” Patt Denning, Ph.D., Co-author of Over the Influence: The Harm Reduction Guide for Managing Drugs and Alcohol

When 2Big or anyone else, refers to some obscure article about addiction or depression that promotes a mindset that I know is a lie and a dangerous lie - Yes, I do take it personally in the sense that one article does not and never can invalidate the monumental mountain of data regarding Addiction and my own personal experience

HAving established Dr Peele isn't the author of some obscure article to quote Peter let me adress that other part of that sentence about that mountain of evidence

Recovery from addiction isn't always a choice left solely to the addict..it's a slippery slope for both addict and attending health care professional alike. Many alcoholics cannot stop drinking cold turkey without running a risk of dying unless they're bombarded with anti seizure and a plethora of other medications - if they stop cold turkey, they die -period.

Lets just look at the actual facts from the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism study about that

In 1992, the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism conducted one of the largest surveys of substance use ever, sending Census Bureau workers to interview more than 42,000 Americans about their lifetime drug and alcohol use. Of the 4,500-plus respondents who had ever been dependent on alcohol, only 27 percent had gone to treatment of any kind, including Alcoholics Anonymous. In this group, one-third were still abusing alcohol.

Of those who never had any treatment, only about one-quarter were currently diagnosable as alcohol abusers. This study, known as the National Longitudinal Alcohol Epidemiologic Survey, indicates first that treatment is not a cure-all, and second that it is not necessary. The vast majority of Americans who were alcohol dependent, about three-quarters, never underwent treatment. And fewer of them were abusing alcohol than were those who were treated.

Stanton Peele

As Dr Peel said in that article in Psychology today when the cost of the addictive behavior is greater then the pleasure gained from that behaior the person will quit. just as the cost to each of us continuing to eat high carb was greater then the pleassure we got eating those high carb foods and we gave them up and started Atkins.

Yes we carboholics still sometimes want to binge and some fail to control themselves and do but those who stop and say what am I gainig from eating that cake and what am I losing and actually count the cost to themselves stay low carb those that don't need to practice carb harm reduction and get back on their Atkins immediately

I am well aware of our wonderful brain memory cross filings and storage of foods as drugs and how the subconcious plys Dr Feel Good every time we are stressed or upset but that ios a diferent topic not one on the myths of can't lose the second time around on low carb cause we only have one shot at it.

[Perry]

If anyone has objection to anything written in this thread (or any other for that matter) they should contact an Administrator or forum Moderator.

[goin2Bgood]

I object to what that guy Perry wrote... Oh wait.. never mind ::::runs away laughing:::: :icondance (joking Perry I'm joking lol)

[2big4mysize]

Re: ketosis

carli the most important thing in Atkins is to read your DR ATKINS NEW DIET REVOLUTION 2002 or newer and follow all the rules for the phase you are doing, eating your fats high, 65% of your total cals, and doing the mandatory exercise part of the plan too, drinking your needed water, eating only enough food to satisfy your hunger not fill your belly, and take the supplememtns, vits and minerals you need based on your food choices. DO all that and you will be a loser on your Atkins no matter how many times you have dieted before. Make thoise changes your new WOL and you will never need to lose those pounds again. The speed with which you lose the weight will be based on your metabolism and how hard you work your plan and nothing else.

Happy low carbing!

[not2late]

Okay, I stickied the "One Golden Shot" link because I thought (and still do) believe it's a good article that gives insight to those of us who are in the yo-yo habit. Does it mean if you go off Atkins you'll never lose weight if you decide to go back on Atkins? No. It only means that for some folks, you might have to work harder on your Atkins.

In other words, to get the results you want the second or third time around, you'll have to do what we at ADBB have always advised:
1. read the book
2. follow the book
3. no modifying the diet into your version of Atkins
4. no thinking that one "small" portion of macaroni and cheese won't hurt
5. no rationalizing that 1 piece of chocolate will be okay as long as you stay below 20 net carbs for the day
6. no rationalizing that a couple shots of vodka won't do any harm because vodka is 0 carbs
7. none of that or the hundreds of other excuses/rationalizations people have used to justify to not follow the rules or the foods list.
8. And most importantly, no slacking off and no excuses.

Yes, you'll have to work hard to get results.

Yes, you'll have to be strict, maybe even stricter than you were the first time around.

Yes, you will have to be very disciplined to the point where you accept accountability for yourself.

The difficulty involved in doing these things are the basis for the ADBB Boot Camp program---people who have slacked off or fallen off and are very serious and committed to doing it---because we have seen how hard it is for some people to get back on and stay on the wagon.

So if this is your 100th time on Atkins just be aware, you might not get the exact results you got the first time. Again, it's for a number of reasons---reasons Dr. Atkins wrote about in Chapter 21 or 22. So if you want to be accountable to yourself, you'll pick up a copy and read it. If you don't, that's your problem.

As for the addiction discussion, it is interesting and informative. But you all might want to move it to the appropriate health issues forum below.

[NeverGrowUp]

for me-

I just bumped up the priority of weight training a bump or two. I had just figured that Atkins was harder the third time around because there was no novelty left. It is easier to do something new then to repeat something you've done before, wether or not you know it'll work.

However, maybe I have lost some of my calorie burning muscle mass. Even if I haven't, weight training will help since I'll at the very least be burning calories, right?

[290wannabe150onAtkins]

Great article. I agree it should be required reading. It just may put a light bulb on in some on us.


:wave Holly

[tickletussler]

Many Thanks to Megs, Peter and 2big

I guess this discussion has been taken elsewhere... but I wanted to thank Peter and 2big for such a great discussion. Both had valid points in their own way, and I dont think this discussion had offended anyone (except maybe Peter and 2big LOL)

I can relate to Megs article, because for me, each time I "dieted" I found it took longer to lose and harder to lose the same amount or even go back to the very weight I started off. This may or may not be because of what is called the "one golden shot" - it doesn't matter. What matters is that yo-yo dieting can make it more difficult for some, for whatever reason, and for many of us, we can relate to the frustrations of yo-yo dieting.

I admire Peter for taking such a stance on his views - it has been very interesting and informative to listen to him and I can almost feel his words.

I can also understand 2big's point of view, it makes sense and in many ways, I think both your answers complement each other and not oppose each other.

I have not seen such a healthy "meaty" (excuse the pun) discussion since I joined ADBB, and I wanted to thank Megs, Peter and 2big for sharing their views

[2big4mysize]

thanks

I have not seen such a healthy "meaty" (excuse the pun) discussion since I joined ADBB, and I wanted to thank Megs, Peter and 2big for sharing their views

that is because usually the debaters turn on each other instead of sticking to the issues being discussed and then folk take sided attactking the person and not the issue and the topics get locked for TOS violations.

[Peterlock]

Hi Tickletusser :wave

I loved your post!

Debate is healthy and rewarding and as you said even "meaty" ! and there's nothing quite like a passionate exchange of ideas to get folks thinking and re thinking.

The key I think, is always having mutual respect and to know that when the discussion is over any negative feelings stay behind.

In the case of 2big and I we may not see eye to eye on every issue - but we definitely agree where it really matters and that's in the beauty of Atkins.

I'm glad you enjoyed the "meaty" discussion - keep your eyes open because I'm sure there's another one bound to spring up and I hope you'll feel free to chime right in.

Peter ha