caffeine question and a few weeks no loss

**Aways2Go** · August 30, 2009, 01:19 PM

Re: caffeine question and a few weeks no loss

Additional note, my calorie intake has been hanging right near 2000 to 2100 a day, and I am in a near contant state of moderate ketosis per the ketostick testing. Also I think my protein intake has been somewhere around 125 or so a day, if memory serves me well (from my fitday entries). I know various people assign different levels of importance to any of that, but just a little extra info.

I am also taking a daily multivitamin, an extra b complex pill, chromium pill, kelp capsules, coQ10, and 2 fish oil pills. I take no regular medications other than occasional ibuprofen. I add little to no spices with any great regularity other than ground black pepper and plain mustard, so nothing is sneaking in that way. (I know I can use more spices to make things more interesting, but I'm not bored yet so am trying to keep it simple)

**liv** · August 30, 2009, 01:52 PM

Re: caffeine question and a few weeks no loss

It seems to me that you were eating a lot of illegal items. Induction works if you follow it. If you tweak it - well then we may be out of luck. I really recommend sticking to the rules more or less exactly. Good job on trying and good job on that walking.

Would you like to list the menu so that I can see what goes in there

Example: (Add all quantities and all you eat and drink and all sweeteners)

Breakfast
coffee
1 egg
tons of water

Snack (post workout)
1/2 oz havarti cheese

Lunch
egg scramble (2eggs, 2 mushrooms, 1/2 os cheddar, 1/3 green onions, 2 tsp bacon fat)
1 slice ham (yes it is sugar free)
5 slices of cucumber
tons of water

Snack
80gr Beef and 1 1/2 leaf romaine

Supper
2 beef patties, romaine, red pepper, bacon, mustard (2 cup salad)
coffee
Water

Supplements: multivitamin, iron, vitamin D and evening primrose.

**JulieB** · August 30, 2009, 02:43 PM

Re: caffeine question and a few weeks no loss

I would also guess that your tortillas, etc are to blame rather than caffeine/cream. Are you getting at least half of your daily carbs from veggies? Try doing induction following ALL of the rules - I'm sure the scales will move then.

**Aways2Go** · August 30, 2009, 04:55 PM

Re: caffeine question and a few weeks no loss

As I am sure is common, I was in a hurry to get started. I read/skimmed through the book and jumped in, mostly keeping in mind to stay at 20 carbs or less and eat 2-3 cups salads and veggies. I was not really intentionally trying to tweak it to try to get by with something, I mostly was just unaware. Of course it was all ok as long as I was losing, but then when it stopped, I gave it about a week and then decided I needed to read more closely. That's when I saw (re-read, remembered, whatever) no aspartame, no caffeine, etc. Then I have since started removing those things. That's what I mean by tweaking. The only thing I have NOT tried to remove is the caffeine. I'm holding out until either the scales continue to refuse to budge or someone convinces me they won't until I do, or else there is nothing else at all I can identify which is not allowed, LOL! I do love me some coffee.

I will hunt up fitday and see my foods (it has been somewhat inconsistent these last few days since I started logging on fitday due to a birthday party and a family get together) and list them here.

Thanks for your time to try to help - I truly have been trying, just shooting myself in the foot a little due to my own ignorance - not reading the book thoroughly, not making enough notes, and assuming some things were okay because the carb counts, etc., were within range. None of it was really intentional until now, with the coffee bit. Admittedly, I AM trying to see if I can get away with that and still lose because it is my absolute favorite item and will be the very last thing I give up willingly, LOL!

**msanjelpie** · August 30, 2009, 05:50 PM

Re: caffeine question and a few weeks no loss

Caffeine does not cause weight gain or stalls. You are probably stalled because you have lost a bit and now your body needs to catch up.

Have you tried decaf coffee? What was the result?

Your body will get with it and start losing again soon as long as you are doing everything right from here on out...

**Aways2Go** · August 30, 2009, 09:30 PM

Re: caffeine question and a few weeks no loss

I sure HOPE it is just a temporary thing and not due to my coffee! Even the coffee I drink right now is a smaller amount than I used to drink (I could drink coffee or espresso all day if I didn't suffer caffeine overload), so I am working on that front (very slowly, and somewhat begrudgingly, LOL!). I have not even attempted a switch to total decaf - I might lose what little mind I have.

I hunted up a food list for one day and here is what fitday said about it -
about 2000 calories, about 23 carbs (over by 3), 140 grams of protein, 65/30/5 on the percentages. There was WAY too much sodium on this particular day (2 or 3x average).

This was before I cut out the aspartame items, so they are here in this list but I have since removed them.

Morning -
about 1/2 a cup of leftover chicken, with skin - was baked, plain
1 1/2 tablespoons of mayo

Snack -
1 ounce mozz cheese stick

Afternoon -
8 to 9 ounce burger patty, fried
2 tablespoons of mayo, a little plain mustard on the burger
a couple of short stalks of celery
3/4 cup of green beans
pat of butter on the green beans

Snack -
another mozz cheese stick, 1 ounce

Evening -
2 hotdogs (package says less than 1 carb each, I count as 1 carb each) with mustard (obviously, no bun)
salad - 2 cups romaine with about 4 cherry tomatoes and 2 tbsp blue cheese dressing

Later Evening -
3 to 4 ounces of ham, plain
1 1/2 tablespoons of mayo
3/4 cup of diet jello - WITH ASPARTAME - I HAVE SINCE QUIT THIS

Water - about 1 to 2 quarts (I HAVE SINCE INCREASED THIS)
Diet Tea Mix - about 2 to 3 glasses - WITH ASPARTAME - QUIT THIS TOO
Coffee - 4 cups, about 6 ounces per cup, with a total of about 3 tablespoons cream

Plus the previously mentioned array of vitamins and other supplements

Is there anything really wrong with this basic menu other than the aspartame things I have since cut out and the water which I have probably doubled? This is probably not too far off how I am eating now (and plan to, assuming this is okay for continued induction level) - I vary the meats and vegetables/salad items around a little (baked chicken, turkey breast cooked in the crockpot, fried ground beef patties, maybe a steak, occasional tuna with mayo and maybe chopped dill pickle, green beans/broccoli/cabbage/eggplant, etc). Maybe once every two or three days I might have a diet cola with splenda.

Thanks for your time. I am very sincere about wanting to do well and truly appreciate your input and advice. I'm in it for the long haul.

**Georgiana** · August 30, 2009, 10:38 PM

Re: caffeine question and a few weeks no loss

Originally posted by msanjelpie View Post

Caffeine does not cause weight gain or stalls.

It's actually quite possible for caffeine to cause stalls or weight gain. Caffeine stimulates insulin release and insulin is a fat-storing hormone. Even if you are not consuming carbohydrates and your body is getting its fuel mainly from fat, glucose is still being created from that fat and protein you are eating for those cells that don't have a mitochondria. So while your body is working to send glucose to those places where it's needed, insulin will cause fatty acids that are absorbed into fat cells to be stored as fat in the body.

**liv** · August 31, 2009, 07:31 AM

Re: caffeine question and a few weeks no loss

Originally posted by Aways2Go View Post

I sure HOPE it is just a temporary thing and not due to my coffee! Even the coffee I drink right now is a smaller amount than I used to drink (I could drink coffee or espresso all day if I didn't suffer caffeine overload), so I am working on that front (very slowly, and somewhat begrudgingly, LOL!). I have not even attempted a switch to total decaf - I might lose what little mind I have.

I think this is a great plan. You owe it to yourself to get the maximum out of the plan.

Morning -
about 1/2 a cup of leftover chicken, with skin - was baked, plain
1 1/2 tablespoons of mayo

Snack -
1 ounce mozz cheese stick

Afternoon -
8 to 9 ounce burger patty, fried
2 tablespoons of mayo, a little plain mustard on the burger
a couple of short stalks of celery
3/4 cup of green beans
pat of butter on the green beans

Snack -
another mozz cheese stick, 1 ounce

Evening -
2 hotdogs (package says less than 1 carb each, I count as 1 carb each) with mustard (obviously, no bun)
salad - 2 cups romaine with about 4 cherry tomatoes and 2 tbsp blue cheese dressing

Later Evening -
3 to 4 ounces of ham, plain
1 1/2 tablespoons of mayo
3/4 cup of diet jello - WITH ASPARTAME - I HAVE SINCE QUIT THIS

This is pretty good. I think it will be good to cut out some of the sweeteners in your diet. I think it may help. It could work to stimulate your appetitie. On general work on making sure there is only once cup from "the other" vegetables. And it you can use butter and oil a bit more. How sugar free are your dressing, hotdog, ham?

Water - about 1 to 2 quarts (I HAVE SINCE INCREASED THIS)
Diet Tea Mix - about 2 to 3 glasses - WITH ASPARTAME - QUIT THIS TOO
Coffee - 4 cups, about 6 ounces per cup, with a total of about 3 tablespoons cream

Yes do not skimp on the water super drink it. And yes good work on getting that diet tea mix out that will help.

Plus the previously mentioned array of vitamins and other supplements

Some vitamins and supplements have fillers and starches. You do not need to take an array of them. You need the basics.

Maybe once every two or three days I might have a diet cola with splenda.

This just add more sweetener and caffeine in your diet. If you can cut it our for now do.

Overall it was pretty good. I think with the improvments you've done and by your decision to cut certain things out. Things will move. We all have small stalls. They are natural. Weightloss is not linear. Just keep going.

**Aways2Go** · September 2, 2009, 12:09 PM

Re: caffeine question and a few weeks no loss

My several week stall is over - lost about 6 pounds over the last few days (3 pounds I had gained over my lowest point, plus another 3). I cut out all aspartame items plus the couple of low carb tortillas I had been having each week. I cut back slightly on the coffee (cut some with a little decaf, and cut down by about a cup a day), but am still having several cups a day with cream. YUM!

It was very frustrating to feel like I was following all the rules as best I knew them and not have any weight loss for several weeks, and at one point even GAINING several pounds. Even AFTER cutting out the aspartame and low carb tortillas, it still took longer to have an effect than I hoped it might. I don't mind waiting if I know a loss is coming, but if you aren't sure and think maybe you are just spinning your wheels, it is very annoying. I'll try to have more patience for any future mini-stalls, LOL! ;-)

Thanks for your input and encouragement to stick with it and wait it out. I am still over 20 by a few carbs per day (working on it), remain in moderate ketosis all the time, and am continuing to let myself have a diet cola with splenda every several days plus some daily coffee with cream as long as I keep losing. I still have no real cravings, even with the occasional diet cola and the coffee. I like many things I am not having, but I can't say I have any real cravings for them.

I think I know why I haven't really struggled with this aspect like many people do...
I would think this way of eating is probably a big change for nearly everyone who starts on it - but for me, I think it is different in a way that is probably relatively uncommon.

For most of my adult life, I was your typical carb-addicted, junk food eating, fast food drive through, and grocery store processed foods eater. Eating that way is just SO easy, fast, convenient, inexpensive, etc. And that is what got me to 351 pounds several years ago and feeling very unhealthy.

But for the past 3 years plus, I have been on a whole foods/natural foods and mostly vegetarian diet (although I like meat just fine, I disagree on a number of fronts with how most of it is produced). Most shopping for the past three years was done at the farmers markets for fresh vegetables and fruits plus some pastured meats, fresh farmers cheese, local honey, etc. Filled in whatever wasn't available from there with purchases from a local natural foods type store - bulk bin whole grains, other fresh fruits and vegetables, plain yogurt, butter and olive oil, a very few canned items or frozen fruits, natural style condiments with few ingredients and normally no sugars, etc. The only sweeteners ever brought into the house with any regularity was local honey and stevia powder or liquid. No soft drinks other than an occasional treat, and dessert maybe once a month or so, usually in the form of a chocolate tofu pie made with whole wheat crust, unsweetened chocolate, a little honey and/or stevia. I varied from this only a couple meals a week at restaurants or friends' houses. At one point I was even eating nearly half of my daily intake in totally raw vegetables and some fruits - which is surprisingly more tasty and varied than it sounds. I didn't shop for groceries in a standard chain grocery store from late 2005 until just recently.

I lost about 50 pounds the first year I started eating that way (without counting calories or fat, just eating healthily), but then bobbled around in a 15 pound range for these past two years. Even eating as healthy as I have been couldn't overcome too high an intake of carbs - even if the carbs were almost all coming in the form of fresh fruits, whole grains, a little honey, occasional whole wheat pasta, and a loaf of sprouted grain bread here and there. Unintentionally, I was basically eating in a way that lines up well with the lifetime maintenance phase of Atkins, but I didn't need to maintain at 300 pounds (still 50 pounds better than before) - I needed to lose.

That's what pushed me to start Atkins. Over time, as I reach a normal weight, I intend to get back to my more natural foods type diet - with more protein and fewer grains/higher carb items a'la Atkins style, but still with tons of variety of vegetables and fruits.

But that is also what I found so very ironic and almost humorous about the few things I did purchase as "treats" for myself for starting induction - stuff I wouldn't have even considered buying for the past several years (totally processed and/or fake foods with fake sweeteners), but thought might make the switch to induction a little more interesting and pleasant - before I figured out they weren't allowed anyway and were stopping my weight loss, LOL!

So giving those few things up wasn't really a problem... I haven't been eating things like that for several years anyhow, and picked a really bad time to re-try a few of them! I feel quite sure that having not eaten refined sugar/flour products with few exceptions over the past several years is why I have not experienced any serious cravings for anything since starting Atkins (excluding coffee).

Good luck to all and thanks for your input and support.

**liv** · September 2, 2009, 01:34 PM

Re: caffeine question and a few weeks no loss

I think it is very important to learn how to deal with stalls. Because they can be very frustrating. I know that personally. And I am trying to make this a life style so I should not worry about it but I do.
So glad to here that things started to move for you. And more will come. Just stick to basic whole foods and lots and lots of water.

I was going to ask you. Do you count total carbs or net carbs?

**Elizellen** · September 2, 2009, 03:37 PM

Re: caffeine question and a few weeks no loss

Congratulations for crossing the border into Twoterville

Keep up the good work

**Aways2Go** · September 2, 2009, 04:58 PM

Re: caffeine question and a few weeks no loss

I count net carbs, or intend to, but when I was having something like low carb tortillas, which I am no longer having, I didn't totally trust the whole "total carbs minus fiber carbs" idea on a pre-packaged item from most companies, so I unofficially split the difference. I don't trust a commercial company trying to sell me something to be completely truthful or accurate in their representations - maybe I'm just paranoid, LOL! Plain broccoli or cabbage or something like that, well that's another story. Case in point, I saw a low carb tortilla at the big chain grocery store last week that listed total carbs as 5 and fiber carbs as 10 or 12... on the nutritional label, not as part of the front label advertising... uhhh, I thought fiber carbs were PART of total carbs, so how can that be? Didn't matter, I have quit eating such things anyway, but is that some sort of label manipulation or what? I still am puzzled by that. Technically that would make them zero carbs since the fiber carbs listed are greater than the total carbs - which I certainly do NOT believe whatsoever.

I have noticed there are extra carbs calculated when using fitday as the fiber carbs in something like broccoli is not deducted. Rather than change the settings to list the fiber carbs and then deducting them myself every day, I have started "customizing" every food I eat with any regularity and changing the carbs to reflect the net carbs count. I also customized things like "water" and "walking" with no values for anything, just registering a "serving" - so they can be easily added and tracked on the same page with my daily food intake - a good reminder for me to drink more and walk more.

I'm excited to be in the two hundreds again. And more excited that I am currently hovering between 3x and 2x size shirts, so hopefully with another 10 to 20 pounds I can finally pack up a bunch of excess 3x clothes and donate them to some area charities and thin out my closet, which is overflowing with too many sizes. I don't mind hanging on to the smaller stuff, LOL!

**Aways2Go** · September 2, 2009, 05:06 PM

Re: caffeine question and a few weeks no loss

Twoterville - wahoo!
LOL!

**mission to lose** · September 14, 2009, 10:07 AM

Re: caffeine question and a few weeks no loss

Hi Aways2Go,
One little thing, Fitday does not subtract the fiber from your totals. So when you said for example, you went over your carbs by 3 when you had a total of 23, you may actually had less than 20, depending on how much fiber was in the foods you ate. I believe we are supposed to count net carbs, and you get that by subtracting the fiber from the carb total.
There is a way on Fitday to show the approximate fiber, so that you can subtract that amount in your head, the program won't subtract. That way you will know how many net carbs you are actually getting. You may be able to eat a little more carbs than you are now.
I am sorry, I don't remember how to get Fitday to show the carbs, a moderator might remember.
~Mary

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