Body shape and body image

[Labarum]

In comment to a post in the men's forum I said:

"If you look at films (movies) from the 1940s the shape of the ideal woman and the "manly" man is different; and the cut and fit of both men's and women's clothes more realistic."

So I make the observation where all can see it.

We do have an increase in obesity; but do we now have unrealistic and unhealthy expectations of human body shape for both males and females?

[Alexa]

Re: Body shape and body image

Good point. Yes I think we do have unhealthy expectations because of things we see that are altered images and/or the people featured have had surgery and access to hours worth of makeup and things like that.

The scary thing is that I think even if you are aware of the falseness of such images, they enter your brain and you start to judge yourself and others by them - I certainly seem to anyway...which is not good.

[GaynorA]

Re: Body shape and body image

Ohhhh .... don't even get me started on this one. Increase in obesity ... absolutely. Increase in eating disorders among really young children because of media pressure --- unfortunately horribly true. It's rediculous really. Craving to be size zero - whatever the heck that is meant to be. It's like a "none" weight. A very important issue. Well done on raising it.

[not2late]

Re: Body shape and body image

I share a similar view to yours Brian. Until the 1960s when the "Twiggy" look became fashionable, women had body shapes like women---hips and busts (for example, Marilyn Monroe, Sophia Loren, Myrna Loy, Carole Lombard). Then when that waifish Twiggy-Mia Farrow anorexic look became fashionable, the idealized woman's form took the shape of an adolescent boy or a pre-adolescent girl---> no hips, no bust.

Men followed suit. Instead of having men with men shapes ---broad or solid shoulders and solid waists like Gregory Peck or Gene Kelly, you have men with a more slender and delicate build, again similar to an adolescent boy.

[Fuschia]

Re: Body shape and body image

Body image and body shape have always been in flux. If you look at art thru the ages, bodies, and women's bodies in particular, have widened or narrowed depending on what was going on at the time. It's also been a way for society to set apart the "haves" from the "have nots". In many ancient societies, if you and/or your wife was pale, it meant you could afford to stay out of the sun, and did not have work, at least not manual work. Other trends in fashion were and are, much the same.

What I think has changed is the amount of media bombardment. If you like reading about history, there has always been a body type considered ideal for it's age, along with the weight loss method to (hopefully) get it. If you look at any of the old 1940's Hollywood magazines, you'll find all sorts of how this star stays slim and trim articles. Just like today. Unlike back then, however, people weren't bombarded with images every single moment of the day on tv, internet, and every where else.

I know this is a long post, but I have one last thought. I also blame the fitness industry. The seventies was when the fitness craze really took off, right? Before that, a person was expected to exercise, but it wasn't expected that a short stout woman could transform herself into a tall svelte goddess. The short woman might have used a girdle or the like, but she didn't have to kill herself try to achieve something that will never happen.

[guekjian]

Re: Body shape and body image

All I have to say (for myself anyways) is THANK GOD FOR JENNIFER LOPEZ and BEYONCE for making curves not "taboo" but rather desirable. At 5'7, my goal weight of 135 is almost too thin for me because I have a backside and I always will. No matter what I do, it will always be there so what is the point of trying to be Paris Hilton skinny when genetics are just not there. It just is a shame that even though my rational mind knows this, the little devil on the other shoulder says that I will not be attractive until I get to that impossible point...

[Fuschia]

Re: Body shape and body image

But, when J-lo and Beyonce started out, they were, how shall I say it, rather "thicker" then they are now. Heck, Jennifer Lopez hardly even has the booty she became famous for. Once again, I blame the media- when Beyonce & Jennifer started out, they were "breaths of fresh air", etc. Bringing curves back to stick thin Hollywood. After a while though, what's happened? "Beyonce's too Heavy!! Her Health in Danger!!! J-Lo's Booty Too Gosh-Darned BiG!!!"

I know more then a few men would say that those statements are wrong, but, the pressure on celebrities to conform must be crippling. I don't know what I would do if I was in their place. Say the heck with it or try to play by the system's rules to get work.

[not2late]

Re: Body shape and body image

But Jennifer Lopez and Beyonce are often called "full-figured" or "curvy" by the media. And we all know, ladies, that "full-figured" and "curvy" are media code words for "fat".

[Kawispice]

Re: Body shape and body image

I am not sure about "fat" for J.L. and B. If you look at Angelina Jolie, for example, people are concerned about her going below 100 pounds. I think that the actresses are trying to appear youthful and youth is young and undeveloped, and also the camera does add on 10 pounds (or two dress sizes at their weight). Extremely thin usually also means very weak and images of cancer loom in my head. Also extremely thin means very miserable because your body rebels against it (makes me think of those poor people in Africa who are starving to death), it is not healthy and not natural. Poor kids (these people who need to feel absolutely zero sized) I am truly sorry for them.

[Labarum]

Re: Body shape and body image

I share a similar view to yours Brian. Until the 1960s when the "Twiggy" look became fashionable, women had body shapes like women---hips and busts (for example, Marilyn Monroe, Sophia Loren, Myrna Loy, Carole Lombard). Then when that waifish Twiggy-Mia Farrow anorexic look became fashionable, the idealized woman's form took the shape of an adolescent boy or a pre-adolescent girl---> no hips, no bust.

Men followed suit. Instead of having men with men shapes ---broad or solid shoulders and solid waists like Gregory Peck or Gene Kelly, you have men with a more slender and delicate build, again similar to an adolescent boy.

Thanks, Megs, you have "fleshed out" my idea and stated it robustly!

And yes, it is to do with the cult of adolescence. The healthy mature male and female form is different - more rounded and curvaceous for the female, and more solidly muscular (especially the trunk) for the male.

Women should have that classic 1940s hour glass look - flattered by the waisted and flared skirt, and the close fitting bodice. Men should display broad shoulders, and a robust trunk, but without a belly; so as to fill the rather square cut lounge suit jacket of that 40s period.

[LooseShoes]

Re: Body shape and body image

I know you can lose weight to get to a healthy weight, but I think you're kind of stuck with the body type you were born with. When I was young, in good shape and thin, I wore a size 10 on top and 8 on bottom. I looked and felt good there. I can't imagine even wanting to be a size 0. Age tends to rearrange things, too. I'll be happy if my belly gets anything close to flat.

I always like guys who look healthy and solid. The skinny weak ones weren't my type. The pretty boy actors and singers who look like they're about to pass out because they're so skinny don't say "sex symbol" to me.

Also, I've used my body to bring 2 children into the world, nourished them until they were ready for solid food, physically carried them until they were too big for me to carry them anymore. My body is a miracle just the way it is, and even though it's time that I took better care of it, nobody should tell me that it's "bad".

[Rhonda 2]

Re: Body shape and body image

Well I think its the fault of the fashion industry. They HAVE to introduce new and different things to keep on making money. You can only twist one style so many ways- then its time to introduce a new body type and strat producing fashion variations on it. Just like new cars.

I'm in my 3rd week of induction, lost 21 lbs, down to a 14 dress size. Wondering if I should do more

[Kawispice]

Re: Body shape and body image

It depends on how you feel. I always check my strength as well as my dress size. You can go down dress sizes about one or two with exercise alone. The other thing is if you go to a lower weight you have to eat calories to maintain the lower weight, a little higher weight allows you more calories every day for maitenance.

The other factor is that you have to like the look you have, if you look at Angelina Jolie, she looks just plain sick to me. I am so sorry because in her "Riders of the Lost Arc", she truly looked like a goddess. She was strong (in real life) flies a plane (as I do sometimes). I LOVED her, wanted to be just like her.

In her latest film she is a cripple physically, she is so skinny it hurts me to look at her, my lovely goddess... what have you done to yourself?

She lost her mother, and when she went to Africa and saw all the hungry people she lost her desire to eat. She is, IMO, suicidal.

You look georgeous to me in your photo and since I am older than you so I feel it is ok for me to say, the middle comes off best with Pilates, if that is of interest to you. You need not loose 1 pound more.

You know the saying a woman can never be thin enough? I guess they never saw the cancer ward... yep, a woman sure can be too thin.

[not2late]

Re: Body shape and body image

MIGHT NOT BE APPROPRIATE FOR WORK!!!!


Brian, for me it's the difference of this statue of David by Donatello:
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:.../L17/17-40.jpg

And this statue of David by Michelangelo:

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:...iata/david.jpg

Both Davids are youthful, in that Michelangelo's David appears to be a young man in his early 20s, while Donatello's David appears to be a young teenager, maybe 13 or 14 years of age.

Now look at this photo of Keira Knightly, who's in her early 20s.
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:...ybymftalon.jpg

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:.../L17/17-40.jpg

Not much difference between her figure and Donatello's David is there? I mean, no hips, no bust......

[Labarum]

Re: Body shape and body image

Absolutely, Megs. Women are meant to be buxom and well rounded; men muscular, with hefty shoulders and a very solid trunk. And that is not to say either should be fat and flabby.

Does anyone know what body fat percentages produces this healthy 1940s shape in men and women?

Even the two works of art you reference fail the manly test. But we have imposed an impossible unisex ideal image on both men and women.

It's a recipe for disaster.