Body shape and body image

[julirama723]

Re: Body shape and body image

What a great thread!

I have always thought women of the 40s and 50s to be beautiful. I remember commenting to my mother about that when I was young. It didn't matter if they were tall or short or skinny or fat. "Mom, all of these women are pretty, even though they all look so different! Why aren't all women pretty today?" I thought they were gorgeous, these "old" women--their hair was beautifully done, their clothing was tailored to show off the curves of their body, and true, they had similar hairstyles or makeup trends, but each woman was UNIQUE, and not a cookie-cutter image of the one next to her.

I always wished that I could look like Marilyn Monroe, or Kim Novak, or any of those other curvy women. I know I never will--I just don't have that small waist! But I do have curves and I'm proud of them. I really like my reflection in the mirror these days. I'm not starving myself and I've got meat on my bones, and it's getting to be very toned.

I WILL say that I see healthier bodies now than I did growing up in the 80s. It seemed like starving yourself was the "in" thing, and women were more concerned with eating nothing than eating healthy foods. And it was the start of the "barbie" fantasy--huge boobs and slim hips; a woman on top, but a man on the bottom. At least today, I see women who eat healthy foods, women who run regularly, women who strength train, women who practice yoga and pilates, women who have HEALTHY attitudes towards food and exercise. And granted, those more muscular bodies of today's stars may seem boyish, but I'd rather see those extra pounds in the form of muscle, than NOT AT ALL.

I would love to see a return to women looking like women and men looking like men. The biggest thing I notice about men is not neccessarily their change in SIZE (isn't the ideal still broad muscular shoulders?) but a feminization of their features. Why isn't chest hair sexy anymore? Why must men be hairless, tanned metrosexuals to be considered attractive?

I guess I just like women with meat on their bones and men with hair on their chests.

[guekjian]

Re: Body shape and body image

Hear Hear Julie! I so totally agree with you...I have a hard time with men getting their chests and armpits (and other places I won't mention here) waxed...Ewwww gross!

[Labarum]

Re: Body shape and body image

I think there would be more mileage in this for women, but there could be a male presence:

A serious fashion show using the world's best athletes would be an eye opener for some, and a challenge for the designers to show off extremely good body shapes.

Ageing athletes who have stayed in shape, and heavily pregnant athletes should also feature.

[ttdriver]

Re: Body shape and body image

But Jennifer Lopez and Beyonce are often called "full-figured" or "curvy" by the media. And we all know, ladies, that "full-figured" and "curvy" are media code words for "fat".

Exactly. "big boned" is another one I detest.

Back in the 40s and 50s, women wore GIRDLES (remember those?) and CORSETS to have that shapely figure. I can remember as a child watching my overweight mother CRAM her body into her girdle and complain about feeling pinched all over.

Betty

[SugarFreeSheila]

Re: Body shape and body image

Mini-threadjack: Betty, you've got great stems!

[sallyseachange]

Re: Body shape and body image

Great thread!
Thanks for posting the marvels of Michelangelo and Donatello, Megs... always a pleasure to look on.

Notwithstanding that... I'm all for a return to the 40s look. Curvy women and hirsute, solid men! Oh yes!

[Labarum]

Re: Body shape and body image

May I ask again this question?

Does anyone know what body fat percentages produces this healthy 1940s shape in men and women?

[ttdriver]

Re: Body shape and body image

Women are meant to be buxom and well rounded

Says who? I used to be VERY well rounded .. Atkins and exercise changed all that ... FOR THE BETTER.

Excess bulk, especially around the mid-section is a precursor to many physical ailments, among which are diabetes, heart disease and the like. No thank you, I choose NOT to be well rounded any more. Just because it was "stylish" back in the 1940s does not mean its a good thing. Smoking was very "stylish" back then too.

Betty

[obkbbby]

Re: Body shape and body image

Betty,

I don't think any of us meant that everyone should look exactly the same. I think it was more of the point that many of us will never be a size 2 or 4 or even a 6. At my healthiest and most fit, I was a size 10. At that time, I weighed 135 and my doctor actually cautioned me not to lose any more weight. These days, many members of the media - and the medical community - would tell me that is too fat. So many of us are told that if we don't fit into a size 2 or 4 or whatever then we will never be healthy - fit some kind of mold. We're tired of that. It's simply not true.

I think fashion and the fitness industry is to blame, but I also think members of the medical community and the pharmaceutical companies are also to blame. I had a friend who was absolutely stunning. She was tall and had barely an ounce of body fat. She worked out, ate only healthy, organic foods, was simply amazing. She weighed 175. The doctor told her that she was obese because she was 30 pounds overweight according to some chart he had. That is insane. Each person is different and we do not all fit into cookie cutters or charts. When I went to my doctor (one I don't see anymore) and asked for help with weight loss, I was told to read some pamphlets. I got no real advice. I went to another doctor and she told me to see a nutritionist who told me it was okay to eat whatever I wanted as long as I stayed under 1500 calories. I went to a third doctor who told me that I needed gastric bypass surgery. I got no real help from ANYONE.

The pharmaceutical companies push to sell drugs to lose weight, to lower blood pressure, to lower cholesterol, etc. etc. There is nothing wrong with trying to do these things. But did anyone notice that about a year ago or so all of a sudden the acceptable levels of cholesterol lowered and then we had a new rash of cholesterol-lowering prescription commercials on television? One even said "Just when you thought you had lowered your cholesterol enough, new recommendations have been released?" Did you know that new recommendations on blood sugar levels say your normal levels should be about 75? No way. I start to get woozy at 90. When I hit 75, I can barely walk. But when the new recommendations came out, new prescriptions were suddenly available. Jeez. Here we are, living a WOL that naturally lowers blood pressure, cholesterol, blood sugar, and helps us lose weight, and the many in the medical community and the pharmaceutical companies are trying to push drugs down out throats.

All of these companies have angles and they use them to make you feel inadequate. It's the way they sell things - the clothes industry, the fitness industry, the pharmarceutical industry. We have to stand against that and say, "our version of healthy is not being a stick figure - trying to reach come impossible goal."

Betty - you look gorgeous in your picture. I am so happy for you that you are able to achieve what you wanted. But I will never look like you. My body chemistry is just made up for it. I need to be happy with that. Everyone should be happy with the way they will look at their healthiest. And if that means I will be a size 12 like Marilyn - so be it!!!

[SugarFreeSheila]

Re: Body shape and body image

Just to clarify, Marilyn Monroe was not a 2007 U.S. size 12. Below is an excerpt from my website for those interested:

Consider the late Marilyn Monroe, whom women today are always wanting to tout as overweight or "plus-sized." Not bronzed and excessively buff like many of today's actresses? Certainly. But she was by no means a "big girl" & appeared to be in great shape to me. (Here is a link to outtakes of a 1962 shelved film shot just 3 months before her death. Beware: it's campy!) The fact is, according to her dressmaker & studio's claim for her widely-published measurements (35-22-35 & 37-23-36, respectively), the 5'5", 120-pound actress would have easily fit into a today's Gap size 0. My own waist and hips are 24 & 36 inches respectively, and even I can fit into most size 0's. Did you know that a 24-inch waist used to be a size 6 in the early '90's? Vanity sizing is getting that out of control.

[not2late]

Re: Body shape and body image

Marilyn Monroe's stats were 36-24-34 to 38-23-36. Her height was 5'5" and her weight at death was 117 pounds. Based on that, her BMI was 19.5 which is in the "normal" BMI range. In terms of her waist size, for women a waist circumference associated with lower CV disease is 35 inches or less, for men it's 40 inches or less. Her waist to hip ratio was 0.7 which is in the 'healthy range'. She was considered a beauty and the cardiovascular risk factor body measurements (BMI, waist circumference, waist to hip ratio) were all in the healthy/low risk ranges.

Now look at Sarah Ferguson's (Duchess of York) measurements. When the press dubbed her the "Duchess of Pork" her measurements were 40-28-39 and she weighed 158 lbs. Her height is 5'8". At that weight, her BMI was 23-24, which is in the "normal" range. Her waist circumference was in the low risk range. Her waist to hip ratio was 0.71---also in the "healthy range". So she had a normal weight, a normal waist circumference and a normal wasit-to-hip ratio. Yet the press still called her the "Duchess of Pork". Why? What kind of influence did that have on women and girls who had the same body type, same healthy weight and low risk measurements as she?

Yeah, put Marilyn next to Twiggy and Marilyn will look "fat", but Marilyn wasn't according to the tables and charts used to define "fitness" and cardiovascular "health". Same goes for the alleged "Duchess of Pork".

[obkbbby]

Re: Body shape and body image

Well, Marilyn didn't look like any size 0, even today's Gap size 0. Neither did Jane Russell or any of the other women who many of us have looked at as celebrities from before the Twiggy look. If you look at many of their publicity pics, they look bigger than the Keira's and the Nicole's and the Paris' of today. So I guess that's what I meant.

The whole point is we can't all look the same. We can't all be tiny. I don't believe Dr. Atkins said we should all fit into the same mold. He said we should all be healthy. For many of us, that is a size 2. For many of us, it is not.

[GaynorA]

Re: Body shape and body image

Size 2 .... AARRRGGGHHHHH!!! That would be like me trying to walk to the North Pole. Yikes - I'm so pleased we get to be where we are most healthy. For me that feels like UK size 12 - 14. I could probably lose more weight at that point, but I feel good there. I feel comfortable. TT driver ... you have a GREAT athletic body. Luv to all.

[garwil]

Re: Body shape and body image

In terms of mens body image, I think the celebrity status of football (soccer) players has a lot to answer for. They're all doing modelling and promoting product X,Y & Z. Yes they're all incredibly fit and healthy, but the media tries to convey the idea that a man who works for a living and has time for maybe an hour of training a day max can be as fit and healthy as someone who gets paid to work out all day, and that if you aren't that fit and healthy then you're a failure as a man.

The thing is, to me football players don't equate with "manly" or good male role models. I work in EMS and the number of football injuries we deal with where a guy is screaming and crying over a sprained ankle is laughable. And they're such prima donnas! Then you get the rugby injuries...

(From a call I took)

"Well he got knocked unconscious when the guy stamped on his head, and there's blood everywhere but he's come round now and says he's gonna go to the hospital after the game, we'll just put a bandage on his head for now! Don't worry about the ambulance, sorry to waste your time."

I conviced the caller to have the ambulance come out anyway as a precaution, but still, that's a "manly" man!

[obkbbby]

Re: Body shape and body image

That's true, too. Sports figures are often role models for young athletes - whether that's good or not. I don't know about the UK, but here in the states, steroids is a real problem. So many athletes are so competitive that they take these enhancers that are truly scary. Younger and younger people - like high school age - are taking them now in order to look as good and play as well as their heros.