Touchy Topic: Dr. Atkins' death

[MrsBrittney]

Re: Touchy Topic: Dr. Atkins' death

Weight loss is calories in, calories out. Even Atkins points this out. While I'm a skeptic of the medical community as science can always be modified as we learn more, I don't think it will do anyone any health benefits to not exercise.

[not2late]

Re: Touchy Topic: Dr. Atkins' death

Weight loss is calories in, calories out. Even Atkins points this out. While I'm a skeptic of the medical community as science can always be modified as we learn more, I don't think it will do anyone any health benefits to not exercise.

Not entirely. Dr. Atkins also wrote about the "metabolic advantage" of his diet. The "metabolic advantage" enabled Atkineers to eat a higher calorie diet than the low cal diets and still lose weight. From what ADBB members have reported in their own experience, they can eat about 200-400 calories above their AMR and still lose weight. So if their AMR is 2000, then they can safely eat about 2300 calories a day and still lose weight on Atkins, which isn't possible on low cal diets like the DASH, Ornish or Pritikin.

However, Dr. Atkins did recognize that if you went the whole hog and over-ate, the "metabolic advantage" wouldn't work and you won't lose weight.

[Hudson]

Re: Touchy Topic: Dr. Atkins' death

MrsB

I must disagree. Atkins believed in the metabolic advantage of fat over carbs. Meaning that two subjects, one given 1000 calories of fat the other 1000 calories of carbs will see different results. The one eating the fat will weigh less.

And Taubes research suggests that it is insulin that makes us store fat. It is insulin that causes us to put on pounds not necessarily the number of calories we eat. He also has an amazing piece of research (amazing to me) that suggests thin people on average eat just as many calories as fat people. Getting fat is a hormonal problem, not as simple as calories in/calories out.

Taubes did not say don't exercise. He said that the research suggests that it will not work to lose weight.

[MrsBrittney]

Re: Touchy Topic: Dr. Atkins' death

I guess my experience is just personal then. My entire life, up until I spent a good year eating nothing but fast food (literally) I stayed relatively thin and in a healthy weight range. I ate well and was always exercising simply because I enjoyed it. I ate about 2000-2500 calories and burnt off the excess.

I just simply don't have that motivation any more. I exercise still, but I ate obnoxious amounts - hence the weight gain. My hubbie was a personal trainer and getting his degree in health sciences (switched to mathematics, so entirely different field!), and while he agrees high protein diets are a FABULOUS means for folks to control their weight and blast their addictions, we both agree that - for health reasons, I'm not strictly talking weight loss or gain because there is more to health than just being the right weight/size, we ought not advocate against exercise. People need to learn to get active and stay active for an array of health benefits completely seperate from weight.. That's what I was trying to say. I wasn't arguing if exercise alone can make you lose weight - because you could jog for days on end and if you're gorging, you'll go nowhere but up. I was merely saying we shouldn't convince people, due to the other neccessary benefits of a healthy active lifestyle, to not exercise.

Hope that makes sense and you don't all read it the wrong way and go "SHE'S ONE OF THEM" and hate me. LOL.

[kate58]

Re: Touchy Topic: Dr. Atkins' death

Taubes never said not to exercise. He never said that exercise was not very important to health. He did show, very convincingly to my mind at least, that it does not have a major contribution to make to weight loss.

Bear in mind too that Atkins is NOT a high protein diet, it's a high fat, moderate protein, low carb diet. Different dietary approaches work differently depending on the individual - depends on age (very much), general health, type of metabolism and a load of other things.

I don't doubt for a moment that your approach worked for you (and may very well work for lots of people) in the past and it may very well work for you again in the future. It just isn't Atkins is all.

[Hudson]

Re: Touchy Topic: Dr. Atkins' death

No Hate at all. And I agree with exercise is good for you. And my wife got mad at me when I read this exercise dosen't help with weight loss thing. And when I told her the thin and fat eat the same calories she laughed and left the room.

But I'm glad to see the research on exercise/weight loss. It tells me - yea exercise - but what you eat will determine your weight. Carbohydrate intake being the critical part.

[bivium6]

Re: Touchy Topic: Dr. Atkins' death

Hope that makes sense and you don't all read it the wrong way and go "SHE'S ONE OF THEM" and hate me. LOL.

I see what you mean now. And no hate silly MrsBrittney, we was just worried.

[TitianWasp]

Re: Touchy Topic: Dr. Atkins' death

I agree and disagree with a couple of points.

a) Yay exercise. Makes you healthier, live longer, more energy, etc... Also makes you hungrier. I used to commute to school by bicycle, 11 miles there and 11 miles back. I did this for 3/4 of the year. Never lost a pound. I was starrrrrrrrrrrrrrving pretty much all the time. I think that there is a level of exercise that will make you skinny, perhaps because you don't have time to eat as much as it would take to make up the calories burned (think marathons(nod to ttdriver), or trekking the arctic) but with moderate exercise alone, unless you do something to quell your appetite or deny it, you are not likely to lose much at all.

b) Always scrutinize "studies" closely. Far too few people can really weigh the validity of a study accurately (consider the recent MSNBC article that said that Atkins wasn't healthy based on the results of 6 people for one month - yet thousands read and believed it). I have a lot of heavy friends, and my grandmother was heavy, and I have been skinny for most of my life. To a one, all the heavy people in my life were convinced that they didn't eat any more than I and told me so, but I watched when we'd eat together. I ate less, and inevitably slower than they. Every single time. Now this is my own personal experience, so no more ideal a study than anyone else's, but bear in mind that any good scientist is able to make the data support their theories, and even the best scientists can fall victim to ego.

If you consider it logically, the bigger you are, unless (and this is rare, typically 2 to 3% of the heavy population) you have a severe metabolic issue, the higher your metabolism. This is why we have to adjust our calories and our BMR as we lose weight. Fat requires very little energy per pound to maintain itself, far less than muscle, but enough fat requires a measurable amount of extra energy. A 400 pound guy will require more calories than a 170 pound guy, just to maintain his weight. He will also require more calories a day to supply his muscles adequately to move around his heavier frame.

My point, regard all the studies, facts, diet books and news articles with a good dose of skepticism. Pay close attention to the biology you learned in school and gym class, because while many other theories abound, the stuff they teach in school, for the most part, is stuff that most experts can agree upon. And heck, go on to college or grad school in biology, medicine or nutrition and then you can regard even your prior school stuff with educated skepticism.

[MrsBrittney]

Re: Touchy Topic: Dr. Atkins' death

What I was trying to advocate here - and I must've come off poorly due to the feedback - is I didn't want to show anyone new to the WOE that it should be strictly bacon and cheeseburgers and no exercise.

What I meant was.. lets be sure folks remember to still eat healthier options as well, such as cold-pressed fish and leaner meats and their veggies - alongside their beef and butter choices.

I've read the book numerous times and really AM educated on the concept. I just felt defensive getting slack for not buttering my bacon! ;-) I'm not doing a "low fat" version at all - that would be more South Beach! I don't consume crazy amounts of fatty meat choices because I'm more a chicken/fish lover and nothing within his book says to eat red meats a lot - it just says to not be low fat =) I do understand that a low-fat low-carb diet isn't a great option as you are limiting your body of BOTH means of energy (fat or carbs). You need the fat to keep going as you are reducing the more easily-stored carbs from your system (non-complex ones).

Trust me, I do get it! =)

[TitianWasp]

Re: Touchy Topic: Dr. Atkins' death

It's hard sometimes because on boards, not unlike email, what we write versus what people read is often dramatically different. It is terribly easy for people to misinterpret. As well, a lot of folks take the word of Atkins as gospel, and anything perceived as departures from that are often met with pretty vehement reaction. I think it sounds like you get it.

[MrsBrittney]

Re: Touchy Topic: Dr. Atkins' death

LOL aww, thank you for summing up what my babbling couldnt

I just tend to FREAK OUT when I think people may be confusing newbies into thinking this is the cheeseburger diet without exercise, only because its a perception LowCarbers try to hard to fight against with Atkins

[Chicklady]

Re: Touchy Topic: Dr. Atkins' death

so, just to add another twist.....
I "do" Atkins. I also try to keep my fatty acid profile as it would be if I were a caveman.
Yes, I read Neatherthin. I didn't think I could follow it because I thought it was too strict for life in this century.
However, I think he has very valid points. So, I try to keep my saturated fats at about 30% of my fat intake, make some of that saturated fat high in lauric acid, and eat more fat of the poly and monounsaturated.
Still end up with 65% average daily fat intake.....

[aquaryus]

Re: Touchy Topic: Dr. Atkins' death

I heard he slipped on ice and hit his head...

My Grandmother had a heart attack due to her heart being weak. It had absolutely NOTHING to do with clogged arteries. Dr Atkins was, what, 72? Did the critics of the Atkins diet expect him to live into his 100's?

I have had people tell me that it's a bad diet.. I've heard that my ilver is going to fail, my ateries will harden and as soon as I eat a piece of bread in the future, I will gain all my weight back. Well, that last one might be true.. One person in particular is in her 50s, on all kinds of diabetic and blood pressure meds, and she has told me over and over again that it's unhealthy.. she's also the one with a candy bowl on her desk and eats bread like there is a shortage of wheat.

My Mother watches her carbs and recently got blood work back from her yearly check up.. The Dr was impressed and told her to stick to Atkins..

[kate58]

Re: Touchy Topic: Dr. Atkins' death

Dr Atkins was, what, 72? Did the critics of the Atkins diet expect him to live into his 100's?

When you're 29, 72 may seem very old. When you're almost 50, let me tell you, it really doesn't!

[MrsBrittney]

Re: Touchy Topic: Dr. Atkins' death

LOL I'm 24 and don't think 72 is old - but then again my grandfather passed at 98.

But I get the point - he was an older man with a heart condition. It wasn't as if he was 45 and passed away to a sketchy heart issue.