Intermittent fasting...update

**blue996** · January 16, 2008, 09:16 PM

Re: Intermittent fasting...update

So you eat all your calories in one meal? I just wonder if that will mess with your metabolism in some way.

**Grant** · January 16, 2008, 10:22 PM

Re: Intermittent fasting...update

Fasting is one of those things that I just have a closed mind about. I jsut can't believe that it would be healthy for you and I just shudder at the thought of someone doing that to themselves.

On the other hand I recognize that my closed mind is very similair to the way a lot of people feel about Atkins. They just *know* it's bad for you but they've never really looked into it.

Oddly, even though objectively I realize this is unfair, I still can't bring myself to entertain the thought that it is a good idea.

huh!

**buhbye12** · January 16, 2008, 10:28 PM

Re: Intermittent fasting...update

Hi Blue996.

My understanding of this whole fasting thing is that you are actually TRYING to lower your metabolism. A lower metabolism apparently means a longer life span. For me, the fasting is not so much for the weight loss as for the health benefits it gives.

I am after 2 things: HEALTHY weight loss and EASY weight loss. After reading that article, there's no doubt in my mind that fasting is healthy. And combined with a low-carb WOE, I think it's a no-brainer for becoming healthy AND slimmer.

I know, I know, we have been getting it crammed down our throats for years that you "need to boost your metabolism" to lose weight, that you need to "eat 6 small meals a day to keep your metabolism up". I've tried that approach, and all it does is make me CONSTANTLY think about food... "what will I eat for my first snack, for lunch, for my second snack, for dinner...?" I think all that talk about high metabolism is overrated. Obese people who eat 6 times a day have high metabolisms too - what's it doing for them?

If you read the blog entry by Dr. Eades I listed on my initial post, it talks more about fasting increasing health and longevity than about weight loss. But when he and his wife undertook a 24-hour fast every other day, they said they couldn't help but lose weight in the process - even though they were consuming roughly the same amount of calories they would have had they eaten normally. So, did their metabolism slow down? Maybe their bodies became a little more efficient at utilizing the calories they ingested because of the 24-hour break from digestion. I don't know how it all works, and I get the impression that the doctors out there aren't too sure either, they just see the evidence. It lowers BP, helps auto-immune disorders, helps diabetes, etc..

But again, it is definitely not for everyone. I just know that it has been a godsend to me. I feel like I remember reading in my search for answers that you can't really change your innate metabolism THAT MUCH - that your metabolism is genetically pre-determined. (Of course, I can't remember where I saw that, so I can't back it up.)

Have you read "Good Calories, Bad Calories" yet? Seriously, it is an eye-opener. And it talks about metabolism and exercise as well as totally debunking the whole "fat is evil" myth.

**buhbye12** · January 16, 2008, 10:49 PM

Re: Intermittent fasting...update

Hi Grant, thanks for reading my very long post and giving me your input. Perhaps this website (one of hundreds on the subject of the health benefits of fasting) can shed a little light on the matter:

Page Not Found

http://www.vanderbilt.edu/AnS/psychology/health_psychology/fast.htm

The study that Dr. Eades refers to in his blog is more about caloric restriction versus fasting, and the conclusion was that, though both approaches allowed for a much longer life span in the study subjects (rats), the rats who got to eat all they wanted only every other day were actually healthier and happier than the day-in, day-out, calorically restricted rats. Again, this is more for HEALTH than WEIGHT LOSS for me. I just got tired of the Atkins diet when I was eating 3 meals a day, which made it harder for me to stay on. This study confirmed to me that I can healthfully eat only one meal a day and lose weight. I look forward to my meals now, instead of dreading them.

BTW - did you take a look at the blog by the guy who ate every other day? I was perusing his food intake earlier and he ate pretty poorly sometimes, yet he still managed to lose over 50 pounds in 9 months! I mean, the guy ate McDonalds and Dominos pizza at least twice a week. I'm not saying that's good, I'm trying to point out that there must be something to the fasting thing, or how could that work?

**not2late** · January 17, 2008, 07:32 AM

Re: Intermittent fasting...update

I think Taube's book also mentioned a study that found with calorie restriction diets people lose weight, but once they are allowed to eat "normal" calorie amounts ("normal" as in the number of calories their bodies are meant to have), they regain their weight and then some. Plus their hunger is insatiable, so they have a tendency to over-eat. So maybe fasting might work as long as it is done not only for weight loss, but also weight maintenence. And when it comes to weight maintenance, I think it would get complicated because you would have to balance the nutrients so that you don't under-nourish yourself. In other words, you'd have to make sure that you are indeed eating a good balance of nutrients and eating enough of these nutrients to sustain your body during the fasting periods.

The other thing I would worry about is the effect on insulin secretion. Your body has no food/glucose, then you give it a big dose. In response, your bod would sent out a big amount of insulin. I don't know how that would effect your general health in the long run.

But I guess if it works for you...Personally, I don't like feeling hungry: I spent too much time already feeling that way when I was a low fat vegan/vegetarian. I only felt satisfied (not hungry) when I had finished eating, but after an hour or two, I was ready to gnaw on my coffee mug. And it wasn't long before food controlled me to the point that I looked forward to my meals, not because I really liked eating lentil-carrot stew, but because I was so hungry anything was appealing. I can't go back to that way of existing because I like being able to enjoy my food because I like the flavors, aroma and appearnce, rather than eating whatever it is because I'm starving.

**kate58** · January 17, 2008, 07:39 AM

Re: Intermittent fasting...update

I know food is a fuel for life, and that many people who struggle with their weight have a seriously love/hate relationship with it.

But, to me at least, food is also a pleasure, it is a social thing, something to share. I like nothing more than cooking a good meal or something tasty for family and friends, or sitting down to enjoy shared food in the company of people I love or whose company I enjoy.

Fasting is anethema to this. I don't want an 'eating window' at some specified time or whole days where those pleasures are denied me.

I love Atkins, because I can enjoy my food, I can still cook healthy and tasty meals for the people I care for, share sociable food and conversation any day or time I like and live a normal life when it comes to eating. Fasting every other day certainly isn't normal to my way of thinking, and I have difficulty seeing how it would fit into a normal family or social life.

It may be healthy, I dunno, but so are other ways of eating. Maybe it makes you live longer - but you know, we are all gonna die and while I don't want to do anything to hasten the end, the quality of my life is just as important to me as its quantity.

**buhbye12** · January 17, 2008, 08:23 AM

Re: Intermittent fasting...update

Thanks, all, for your replies.

Yes, I have read in many different places that when you restrict calories too much, if (or when) you go back to the way you were eating before, you will regain the weight you lost (just like all the people who fall of the wagon on Atkins... re-re-re-induction, anyone?). But this is not Calorie Restriction, it's FASTING. Big difference. I eat quite normally while I'm eating, and I am completely satisfied at the end of my 3 hour window.

I actually feel that this is something I can probably do for a lifetime. I never seem to care about eating much until around 2pm, so what's a couple more hours for the sake of my health? And you're right - when family is around it isn't as easy. I actually have been doing it only on the weekdays, then on the weekends I have been eating lunch and dinner.

My calorie intake during my 3 hours is probably slightly lower than if I had been grazing all day, but I by no means am starving. I break the fast with a protein and a fat - maybe a piece of lunchmeat wrapped around some cream cheese. That takes the edge off. Then I cook dinner for the family, and I probably eat more like a meal and a half-worth of food.

As for the insulin spike, wouldn't I need a large infusion of carbs to set that off? From the reading I have done, there seems to be something going on during the fast that tempers those effects, anyway. Dr. Eades and his wife normally eat low-carb, but they said they didn't during the fast, just to see what happened, and they still felt great and lost some weight.

Don't get me wrong - I love eating, too! So much so, that it seems to get me into trouble. It has helped me a great deal to give myself this one restriction. Since starting this, I noticed the things I crave for my eating window are almost always healthy choices. I CRAVE meat and fat, I CRAVE a nice big salad. I don't crave bread and cookies and donuts like I did before. My body seems to want the healthy food after going without for most of a day.

But hey! I only just started this, you know? Check back with me in couple months and I'll let you know just how DO-able it is. So far I am contentedly full and feel more vitality. But maybe I'll crash and burn. I just want everyone out there to maybe not eschew the idea of an occasional fast - it is a well-documented curative and - believe me - going for 20 hours without food is NOT THAT HARD. Your body doesn't go into starvation mode that soon, so you don't need to worry about that, and maybe we should remind ourselves once in a while what it's like to actually be HUNGRY. There are plenty of people in the world who know that feeling on a daily basis because they have no choice. We are so incredibly lucky to have an endless food supply.

I know a lot of you reading this are thinking how un-healthy it is to go without food. But isn't this type of fasting done around the world by certain religious sects to no ill-effect? Isn't it during Ramadan that you can't eat until the evening? I don't think any of those people starve to death from waiting till sunset for a meal. The worst thing I've heard is some people say they feel faint or weak. So have a cup of bullion (sodium) and take a potassium supplement to replenish your electrolytes. That's what I do, though I have never actually felt weak or faint - I have plenty of fat stores for my body to draw energy from.

**Sera** · January 17, 2008, 11:23 AM

Re: Intermittent fasting...update

my aunt does fasting every now and then inbetween her weightwatchers plan and she is quite grumpy while doing so and the little weight she loses is back on in no time once she goes back to the original plan.
tell me all u want but i do not, cannot, believe it is healthy to do this for more than a few days.

i was gonna write some more things but thought better of it and did not do it, I'm not going to bring my personal beliefs into this as I dont want to be "enemy of the board" lol

**buhbye12** · January 17, 2008, 12:26 PM

Re: Intermittent fasting...update

Hi Sera, thanks for reading my posts.

I have stressed that it is not for weight loss that I am embarking on this journey, but rather the fasting is to complement the health benefits of the low-carb WOE. Did you read the blog entry by Dr. Eades? I put that link in so whoever is interested can read for themselves exactly WHY I decided to try this. Did you read the article about the health benefits of fasting? (Link is in a separate entry on this thread.) I think it's written by a university student, but she still brings up some no-nonsense facts about fasting. You should read them.

As far as I am concerned, this has worked for me since starting over a week ago. I don't obsess about food like I did before (trying to plan 3 or 4 "approved" meals a day gave me too much room for error) and it fits in with my "style" of eating: I am a big-meal eater. I don't feel satisfied until I have eaten a big meal. I can't just snack on 3-oz packets of tuna and mayo.

I can't stress enough that it is definitely NOT for everyone, but it has been working for me.

**Hudson** · January 17, 2008, 03:35 PM

Re: Intermittent fasting...update

On the plus side.
There is abundant evidence that calorie restriction leads to greater health and longevity.
It would make sense that hunter/gatherers would most likely eat in an IF way.

On the negative side.
Atkins advised against this. Don't skip breakfast. Etc.

I guess what makes me interested is the fact that the 6 meal a day crowd is largely also the low-fat crowd. So they could easily be wrong on both counts.

Interesting to me that Eads suggests when doing day on day off fasting, you could eat what you want not just low carb.

Have you lost any weight? How is your energy level?

I have done this by accident many times. Miss breakfast, then lunch, then eat. I have seen no ill effects. Including no loss of energy. But have seen no real advantage in weight loss.

**Reveal** · January 17, 2008, 03:55 PM

Re: Intermittent fasting...update

I'm a long-time low-carber, and I'm really interested in this idea, Buhbye. I hope it works well for you.

I'm a little surprised to see all of the discouraging comments here, since fasting of any type is an ancient spiritual and health practice. On top of that, it's a highly probable idea that one 'big meal' (kill) was the way our ancestors ate--getting most of their daily calories in meat when they could, and eating nuts/seeds/greens while they waited for more meat. *g*

The idea that the human body can't go more than 4 or 5 hours without food is hilarious. We'd have died on the plains in that case.

Sure, this way of eating wouldn't be for everyone, but it's a legitimate idea and it has some very sound science backing it up. Also, eating once per day sounds about right to me. Like you, I often have to make myself eat, and I tried intermittent fasting myself for a while when I was trying to LEARN to feel hunger. And yeah, those nightly meals were fabulous. Quite worth waiting for.

Good luck! I can't wait to hear how this works for you--I'll be keeping an eye out!

R.

**not2late** · January 17, 2008, 05:29 PM

Re: Intermittent fasting...update

The hunter-gatherer theory hinges on the supposition that our ancestors eating habits were similar to our primate relatives--walking around gathering/hunting foods. If you look at the eating behaviors of gorillas, chimps and bonobos, they spend a great deal of time walking around and foraging from tree to tree, termite hill to termite hill and back again.

Did our ancestors go hungry during periods of famine? Why of course they did, that's why our body fat is very important, because it's stored energy. And that's why most of their descendants are excellent fat-storers--the folks who couldn't store enough fat to get them through lean times died.

As for religious fastings, generally religious fasts last only for a set period of hours. For example, during Ramadan, the fast is between sunrise and sunset. They eat a pre-dawn (pre-fast meal) and have a a post fast meal in the evening. So they eat 2 meals a day 8-12 hours apart; they don't forgo eating for 24 hours.

In my opinion, if fasting works for you, go for it. But if you're looking for ADBB to give its blessing and say it's okay to do, you won't find it because ADBB is strictly by the book---Dr. Atkin's book.

**buhbye12** · January 17, 2008, 05:49 PM

Re: Intermittent fasting...update

my current stats: 170/165.5/130. When I joined this board late last year, I weighed 167, fell off the wagon during the holidays, and gained 3 pounds. I started eating like this on January 2 and actually took about 5 days off (visiting family - it's hard to say no to those people!) in the middle, and still have lost almost 5 pounds.

So it seems to be working, and yes, I have been trying to eat lower carb, but I just ate homemade chili tonight (added cheese and sour cream) and ate crackers with it, and I had a low carb whole wheat wrap filled with cheese and jalapenos. So we'll see tomorrow. I ate a dessert made with heavy cream, cream cheese and sugar free jello. I feel perfectly satisfied, though I might have some almonds and a couple dark chocolate chips before 8. Probably close to the same amount of calories I would have eaten throughout the day had I taken a breakfast and lunch. I love my big meals, what can I say?

I KNOW I'm going to hear it from the administrators - this is not really "ATKINS" diet, but it is inspired by it. I understand the importance of higher fat and lower carbs. I read the book. I tried induction many times and just kept finding myself turned off by all the meat and fat at breakfast, lunch and dinner. So if this works for me, is it really such an infraction? I am so much happier doing it this way!

By the way, I have yet to incorporate physical activity into my daily regimen. Monday I plan on getting back to my gym and working on my goal: a 10 minute mile on the treadmill on level 3 incline. Wimpy to some, but considering I can only BARELY do a mile in under 15 minutes, it's a bigtime goal for me. And I plan on doing upper and lower body weights on alternate days.

**Boo1667** · January 17, 2008, 07:34 PM

Re: Intermittent fasting...update

It personally wouldn't be for me, but if it makes you happy then I'm not one to judge.

I do think it will slow your metabolism way down to the point where you won't be able to lose weight. Last January I started to diet and exercise again because I gained 20 pounds when I quit smoking. I always got late night hunger pangs, and so my way of thinking was to "save" my calories until dinner time (I was doing low-cal then), and load up on the food so the late night hunger couldn't get at me. I was eating 300 calories during the day, and then I would have a 900-1000 calorie dinner. I wasn't losing weight, so I kept uping the exercise, thinking I wasn't moving enough. I got to the point where I was working out for almost 3 hours a day, and I just kept losing and gaining the same 2 pounds. It was a very frustrating time in my life. Then I discovered that it wasn't my calories that was the problem, but when I was eating them. Because I starved my body all day, it held onto every single ounce I put into it at dinner time, which just ruined me. I'll admit my metabolism is slow to begin with because of medication and such, but it was just ridiculous how slow it got. There is no reason why a person working out close to 3 hour a day and eating 1200 calories shouldn't lose weight, unles the body was starving.

I'm sorry to say, but I'm also not very impressed by the man who lost 50 pounds in 9 months. That's only 5 and a half pound in a month, or just over a pound a week. While someone like me finds those kinds of numbers to be about right, I'm also a female and within 8 pounds of having a "normal" BMI. But for a man with 50 pounds to lose, a pound a week isn't very inspiring. Especially considering that he was probably starving and miserable the entire time.

There are times when I don't feel like eating, especially right now, food just isn't all that appealing, but I've starved my body before, and the results were disasterous. All in my opinion of course.

Announcement

Intermittent fasting...update

Intermittent fasting...update

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment