Behavioral Support

[Peej]

Re: Behavioral Support

Of course you have a higher success rate than just anyone who buys the book. People (I assume) pay you to keep them on track. That does not mean that your approach is any better or any worse than any other plan.

I think the biggest reason that people do not lose weight is that as a society and culture, we eat junk. We sit on our bums all day watching reality television and munching on potato chips after work. What happens when we have a late day and don't feel like cooking? We order out for pizza or stop for burgers/chinese. Whether you approve of low-carb plans or not, the typical American diet is not healthy.

Those habits often go on for a very long time before adding up to alarming weight gain. By that time, we are so consumed by our habits and addictions that they are very difficult to break. If you're being held accountable for your choices by a professional, of course you're going to be more likely to stick with it than if no one needed to know if you cheated.

Most people fail at diets, no matter what the diet, because their habits, wants, needs and/or addictions overwhelm their desire to succeed. Atkins makes this a lot easier by lessening the conditions that cause those problems to overwhelm us. Ketosis during the first 2 weeks keeps your appetite in check, and stable blood sugar/insulin keeps most cravings at bay.

I think the key to success is finding the plan that works best for the individual. Some people can stick to low calorie diets that contain a lot of carbs, some people can't. Many people with insulin issues find a lot of relief from Atkins, myself included. That is not to say that Atkins is the be-all end-all of all weight loss plans. It just works best for some people.

When you say you have a 70% success rate, I think you need to be more specific. What does "success" mean? Does that mean that they lose weight? Reach goal? Reverse diabetes and/or other health complications?

I also think that if you only counted the people who actually follow Atkins exactly and get through the first 2-4 weeks and actually read the whole book, the success rate would be significantly higher. Its a lot like quitting smoking. You're abandoning unhealthy addictions and habits that have likely been with you for a long time. Quitting smoking, too, has a higher success rate with a support system/counseling.

So I'm not really sure what you are trying to get at. No, buying the book and following the plan does not come with a built in support system. The book is great for motivation and gives tips for making habits that will help you stick with it but it is not the same as having Dr. Atkins on your speed dial. Support, for the most part, is something that you have to do on your own. Whether you can do it on your own, find a forum or a friend, a doctor, a therapist, a personal trainer, whatever, support is beneficial.

WLS is effective, sure, but you can't compare a lifestyle-changing surgery to a nutritional plan. Nor can you say that a plan is unsuccessful because some people are still fat or because some people don't stick with it.

edit: I'm not sure how you can say that diets don't work when there are obviously people here who it has worked for. If you are trying to get across the point that diets or weight loss plans are more effective when combined with a support system, sure. I think we can all be in agreement with that.

[Georgiana]

Re: Behavioral Support

Thirdly there are many many many many other threads here so if I am a troll or a stirrer upper why have so many folks responded.

Ahem... that is exactly why.

I have a premise that diets don't work. So far all the evidence points to that. This is a support forum and I would expect that the % success rate would be higher yet I have no proof of that either.

Could you please provide the % success rate for this board, so that we can compare it with the other statistics? Or at least the method you would use to determine it?

I smell censorship of the worst kind. I am not coming on and saying stuff like Atkins was obese when he died or low carb can cause keto acidosis or that carb starvation causes psychosis. Nor have I posted link to articles proving that. I am asking questions about behavioral support. Personally I would not do low carb but that is me because based on what I know it is not very effective or safe but that is simply my opinion. Am I entitled to express my opinion here?

That's right. We are not saying you are a troll either. Or that your posts are not intended to support people following the Atkins diet, as they should be on an Atkins Diet support board. Or that the intention of your posts is to stir things up. No. We are just expressing our opinion, so please bear with us.

I noticed you have been asking yourself this question (about the low percentage of dieters who successfully maintain their weight loss) for the past year at least. I hope one day you will finally find the answer you are looking for. However, given your profession, you should understand that it is not ethical to demote the Atkins Diet on an Atkins Diet support board. You might, voluntarily or not, skew the final results of your research pursuits and introduce a systematic error in your measurement of the success rates of Atkins dieters. Since we want to support and encourage those members of this board who have decided to follow Atkins, it would be morally irresponsible for us to allow you to do this.

[Sherri]

Re: Behavioral Support

This forum seem like a support group so I would expect the results to be higher than for people who did Atkins on their own but honestly there really are not a whole lot of success stories even here.

There seems to be a sense of community and support here and my impression is that is a big part of the reason for the successes here. One lady here has been successful in maintaining her 100 pounds of weight loss for over 3 years but I wonder if it were not for the support she gets here is she would have had the success. I suspect that she would not have.

I was successful with my weightloss before I found this site. I would still be successful with maintaning my weighloss even if I didn't come here. It's my lifestyle! I don't do diets! My mind is set on eating this way for the rest of my life. With or without ADBB. So if you were referring to me. You're wrong!
Yes, many of us are successful with the support of this board. I also know of successful members that have lost 100+ lbs. that are no longer active on this site and are still maintaning their weightloss.
Ha, go figure!
Sherri

[Ryan.Stoeppel]

Re: Behavioral Support

Wait a minute. I have been nothing but polite and inquisitive.

To quote our sitting Vice President "You can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig."

Secondly, I started this thread because I was curious about the behavioral support in the Atkins plan.

This forum is all about behavioral support. Take the time to read it without any biases you might have and you will see the encouragement in all the different threads and groups.

I have a premise that diets don't work. So far all the evidence points to that. This is a support forum and I would expect that the % success rate would be higher yet I have no proof of that either.

Where is your evidence? What is your control group? I, as well as my peers here, and your "colleagues" (a term I am using rather loosely) in the medical field would LOVE to see your research. When can we expect you to be published in the NEJoM? Science Today? **** I'd even take Highlights for Children.

I smell censorship of the worst kind. I am not coming on and saying stuff like Atkins was obese when he died or low carb can cause keto acidosis or that carb starvation causes psychosis. Nor have I posted link to articles proving that. I am asking questions about behavioral support. Personally I would not do low carb but that is me because based on what I know it is not very effective or safe but that is simply my opinion. Am I entitled to express my opinion here?

In order for this to be "censorship of the worst kind" you would actually have to be censored. So far you have been allowed to express your thoughts and opinions freely. You are, however, on an Atkins support bulletin board and it is crystal clear that you have not come as a friend, nor even as a person who is interested in finding the truth about Atkins or learning about all the success stories that are on this board. The only thing you are interested in is driving home a point that you feel to be true. You aren't asking questions, you are making statements. There is a vast difference. If you were truly a "researcher" as you are indicating you are, you would know the distinction between the two.

[HardRuler]

Re: Behavioral Support

Of course you have a higher success rate than just anyone who buys the book. People (I assume) pay you to keep them on track. That does not mean that your approach is any better or any worse than any other plan.

I don't keep them on track. They keep themselves on track. My method work. Diet books don't work. The nutritional approach doesn't work either.

I think the biggest reason that people do not lose weight is that as a society and culture, we eat junk. We sit on our bums all day watching reality television and munching on potato chips after work. What happens when we have a late day and don't feel like cooking? We order out for pizza or stop for burgers/chinese. Whether you approve of low-carb plans or not, the typical American diet is not healthy.

A agree. Americans are a bunch of shameless gluttons who have atrocious feeding habits that they pass on to their kids. It is quite alarming.

Those habits often go on for a very long time before adding up to alarming weight gain. By that time, we are so consumed by our habits and addictions that they are very difficult to break. If you're being held accountable for your choices by a professional, of course you're going to be more likely to stick with it than if no one needed to know if you cheated.

I would think that when one pants started getting tight one would exercise a little moderation instead of buying bigger pants but they don't. I know why this is true and I help people deal with it.

Most people fail at diets, no matter what the diet, because their habits, wants, needs and/or addictions overwhelm their desire to succeed. Atkins makes this a lot easier by lessening the conditions that cause those problems to overwhelm us. Ketosis during the first 2 weeks keeps your appetite in check, and stable blood sugar/insulin keeps most cravings at bay.

I think making it easy is a big part of the problem. Everything is dumbed down these days. But I can see them yo yoing and going from phase 2 and then back to induction. I have my client make reasonable meal plans and I have them eating frequently so they don't get all that hungry. They also discover how to use protein to curb hunger without going into ketosis. Ketosis is not the main reason protein curbs hunger. Protein can be very dangerous for humans is large quantities. A hormone callled CKK is released when to much protein is in the digestive system and it makes us queasy. If we continue to ingst protein we will vomit. Carbs and fats don"t do that.

I think the key to success is finding the plan that works best for the individual. Some people can stick to low calorie diets that contain a lot of carbs, some people can't. Many people with insulin issues find a lot of relief from Atkins, myself included. That is not to say that Atkins is the be-all end-all of all weight loss plans. It just works best for some people.

No diet or no person can defy the laws of physics. This is TEI vs TEE. I think that people who don't eat fatty foods don't adequately digest them. I know if I eat a big restaurant burger it goes through me very quickly and I doub't is many of the fat cals are getting absorbed.

When you say you have a 70% success rate, I think you need to be more specific. What does "success" mean? Does that mean that they lose weight? Reach goal? Reverse diabetes and/or other health complications?

Complete success is attaining and maintaining an ideal body weight. Beyond that it is good health, physical fitness and increased longevity.

I also think that if you only counted the people who actually follow Atkins exactly and get through the first 2-4 weeks and actually read the whole book, the success rate would be significantly higher. Its a lot like quitting smoking. You're abandoning unhealthy addictions and habits that have likely been with you for a long time. Quitting smoking, too, has a higher success rate with a support system/counseling.

We can only guess about what ifs. The current data on obesity shows that nothing is working even slightly. I don't think this site is representitive of most Americans. The people here would do better on any diet than the general population because they are more motivated and already ahve the mind set to take action.

So I'm not really sure what you are trying to get at. No, buying the book and following the plan does not come with a built in support system. The book is great for motivation and gives tips for making habits that will help you stick with it but it is not the same as having Dr. Atkins on your speed dial. Support, for the most part, is something that you have to do on your own. Whether you can do it on your own, find a forum or a friend, a doctor, a therapist, a personal trainer, whatever, support is beneficial.

If he were alive today what would he tell the food addict, the bulimic or the emotional eater? I am working on a book that I feel is the comprehensive approach that is needed. I examined why people fail. The reasons are many and varied but nutrition is only part of the equation. Many of my Atkins drop outs did not feel sated so they would eat everything in sight. Other failed dieters simply did not want to reform their lifestyle. They wanted some magic pill.

WLS is effective, sure, but you can't compare a lifestyle-changing surgery to a nutritional plan. Nor can you say that a plan is unsuccessful because some people are still fat or because some people don't stick with it.

WLS is pretty much induced bulimia IMO. If the plan doesn't do what it promises than it is not successful. People buy into it with the expectation of losing weight but that rarely happens. That is not what I call success. That means the plan is flawed.

edit: I'm not sure how you can say that diets don't work when there are obviously people here who it has worked for. If you are trying to get across the point that diets or weight loss plans are more effective when combined with a support system, sure. I think we can all be in agreement with that.

Maybe I should re phrase that and say that diets only work 2% of the time. Support does not work all that well either. If it did Weight Watchers and TOPS would be solving the obesity crisis.