Ketostix, I need an opinion

[neutronnorman]

Well, I jumped on the band wagon and purchased Ketostix. So, naturally, I used them the minute I got home. It registers between 15-40 mg/dL. The range is between small to moderate. Is that a good range or should I bump up fats to reach large concentrations (80-160 mg/dL)?

What are your typical measurements?

(Yeah, G. okay, mg/100cm^3)

[ldyj]

Re: Ketostix, I need an opinion

In for a penny, in for a pound! It doesn't matter, if it's pale pink or the darkest purple, you're in ketosis. More isn't better, it just is!!

[Patriot]

Re: Ketostix, I need an opinion

You would think that if more ketones are coming out in your piss (darker color), you are burning more fat!
But then that would make to much sense.

I have heard it both ways and am still confused about it.

[neutronnorman]

Re: Ketostix, I need an opinion

You would think that if more ketones are coming out in your piss (darker color), you are burning more fat!
But then that would make to much sense.

I have heard it both ways and am still confused about it.

Yes, I've heard that many people are just dehydrated on the diet causing excessive ketone bodies in the urine.

[UNCRob]

Re: Ketostix, I need an opinion

Yes, I've heard that many people are just dehydrated on the diet causing excessive ketone bodies in the urine.

Mine have been in the bottom of the large range so far and i have had one day(day 1 96oz) drinking less than 100 ozs of pure water. In fact i haven't had anything but water since i started. My personal opinion is each person is different in the amount of ketones produced but the end result will be the same.

[Georgiana]

Re: Ketostix, I need an opinion

Well, I jumped on the band wagon and purchased Ketostix. So, naturally, I used them the minute I got home. It registers between 15-40 mg/dL. The range is between small to moderate. Is that a good range or should I bump up fats to reach large concentrations (80-160 mg/dL)?

I don't know if you need to bump up the fats for your plan (as I understand, you are not following Atkins now). But as you can see from the measurement unit, ketostix only measure the concentration of ketones in urine. Furthermore, they only measure one of the three kind of ketones, and that one ketone (acetoacetate) can either be reduced to beta-hydroxybutyrate (another ketone) or decarboxylated to acetone and CO2. If any acetoacetate survives, it will be spilled over into the urine and measured by ketostix.

A ketone more reliable in indicating ketosis is acetone. This is a waste product of lipolysis and it will cause a nasty/fruity breath. However, it is not measured by ketostix.

You would think that if more ketones are coming out in your piss (darker color), you are burning more fat!
But then that would make to much sense.

As I explained above, darker color does not mean more ketones. It simply means a higher ketone concentration. Even if you were peeing more excess acetoacetate, that excess can come from dietary fat or body fat. Eating foods rich in short & medium chain fatty acids, for example, will most likely make your ketostix darker.

Yes, I've heard that many people are just dehydrated on the diet causing excessive ketone bodies in the urine.

Dehydration does not cause one to pee more ketones (i.e. cause "excessive ketone bodies in the urine"). In the ideal assumption that no factor other than water intake changes, you will be peeing the same number of excess ketones, just in a smaller volume of pee. This will increase the concentration of acetoacetate, so the ketostix will become darker. In our ideal example, if the ketostix were not changing color before and being dehydrated makes them change color, then it simply means the initial concentration was below the threshold of the ketostix.

Norman, did you check the FAQs? There is a thread there saying when it's best to test for ketosis. And as you probably know, exercise will influence the color on the ketostix too. A good discussion about the effect of different forms of exercise on ketosis is in Lyle McDonald's book, "The Ketogenic Diet" (Chapter 21).

[goin2befit]

Re: Ketostix, I need an opinion

A good discussion about the effect of different forms of exercise on ketosis is in Lyle McDonald's book, "The Ketogenic Diet" (Chapter 21).

Just curious.. I have stumbled upon his books several times and just try to keep ignoring it... so anyways, is there certain exercises which will help aid in losing body fat/weight? Would you recommend reading this book to someone who is following DANDR b/c what I seen Lyle has a whole diet concept of his own.. sorry for the interruption, you all may continue back on subject.

[neutronnorman]

Re: Ketostix, I need an opinion

"Norman, did you check the FAQs? There is a thread there saying when it's best to test for ketosis. And as you probably know, exercise will influence the color on the ketostix too. A good discussion about the effect of different forms of exercise on ketosis is in Lyle McDonald's book, "The Ketogenic Diet" (Chapter 21)."

Georgiana I made an observation this morning, and thanks for reminding me of decarboxilation reactions, cheez...reduction..., bio-organic chemistry all over again...
After my strength training the ketostix did turn darker.
I'm aware of what they measure. Before my morning workout, I had a negative on the reagent sticks.

Just to side track a bit, Georgiana, before I look it up, would ketosis give a false positive on a breath-alayzer test?

Thanks G. you are a tremendous help here on the forums. But I'd hate to have you as my lab instructor! At least I give extra credit if the students spell their names right.

[Georgiana]

Re: Ketostix, I need an opinion

Just curious.. I have stumbled upon his books several times and just try to keep ignoring it... so anyways, is there certain exercises which will help aid in losing body fat/weight? Would you recommend reading this book to someone who is following DANDR b/c what I seen Lyle has a whole diet concept of his own.. sorry for the interruption, you all may continue back on subject.

He doesn't really really about forms of exercise and losing body fat. In Chapter 21 he just talks about ketosis and exercise. Most forms of exercise are ketogenic. High intensity exercise has a temporary anti-ketogenic effect, so McDonald says it should be followed by 10-15 min of low-intensity aerobics.

[Georgiana]

Re: Ketostix, I need an opinion

Just to side track a bit, Georgiana, before I look it up, would ketosis give a false positive on a breath-alayzer test?

Theoretically, I imagine it is... if acetone reacts to form isopropanol. Not sure though.

If you have access to a breath-analyzer, I'd be curious to know.

[Georgiana]

Re: Ketostix, I need an opinion

Well, did some Google-ing. You probably found the paper already, but for others interested, here's a link to a paper describing the case of a guy who tested positive for alcohol, presumably from being on a ketogenic diet: Access to articles : International Journal of Obesity

[Elizellen]

Re: Ketostix, I need an opinion

Wasn't some pilot grounded for testing positive for alcohol and got off when he convinced them it was his Lowcarb diet making the meter test positive?

[Elizellen]

Re: Ketostix, I need an opinion

I can't find the report (a couple of years ago I think) but did find this on wiki - not that I beleive everything I read on the internet
WikiAnswers - Could elevated ketone levels produce inaccurate Breathalyzer results

[Elizellen]

Re: Ketostix, I need an opinion

I can't find the actual news report but did find someone blogging about it here
DUI BLOG : Bad Drunk Driving Laws, False Evidence and a Fading Constitution
Though I would not say he was an unbiased source of info

Drunk Airline Pilot?…or Dieting?

Sunday, April 8th, 2007
I’ve posted a number of times on the problem of non-specificity of breathalyzers — that is, their inability to distinguish ethyl alcohol from thousands of other chemical compounds. See ”When Alcohol is Not Alcohol”. I’ve also discussed specific situations that commonly recur, including the presence of acetone on the breath of diabetics and folks on low-carbohydrate diets. See “Drunk Driver?…or Diabetic?“ and ”Dieting Can Cause High Breathalyzer Results”.
In today’s news:

Diet Clears Drinking-Arrest Pilot
London, April 7 (BBC) – A pilot arrested on suspicion of being over the alcohol limit has been cleared after tests found heavy dieting had caused his breath to smell like drink.
The Virgin Atlantic employee – held at Heathrow on 31 March before a flight to New York – had failed a breathalyser.

But blood samples taken from the 47-year-old prove his blood-alcohol level was consistent with a non-drinker.
Scientists say low-carbohydrate diets can produce acetone in the body, which may fool breath test equipment.
The long-serving pilot was said to have been on a heavy diet for a long period.
Acetone is a substance produced by the body as it tries to make up the glucose absent from low-carbohydrate diets.
Wayne Jones, a professor in experimental alcohol research at the University of Linkoping in Sweden, told the BBC breathalysers can sometimes fail to distinguish acetone from drink. “Then there’s a risk you get a false positive reading,” he said.

[neutronnorman]

Re: Ketostix, I need an opinion

Theoretically, I imagine it is... if acetone reacts to form isopropanol. Not sure though.

If you have access to a breath-analyzer, I'd be curious to know.

I'll let you know, I'm going to see if I can get my hands on one if not, I'll ask around the med school. My lab happens to be in the health / life sciences building...go figure...I do physical chemistry...