HELP! How many calories...

[Georgiana]

In the past 4 weeks I was a lab rat for my own little experiment: I didn't use FitDay**, didn't count calories, fat, protein; I simply used a carb counter to keep track of my daily net carbs and ate whenever I was hungry and as much as I needed to be satisfied. Today I entered everything in FitDay to see how things varied from day to day in these 4 weeks. I know many members are wondering how many calories they should eat per day, so I'm posting my numbers below and some statistics.

** Actually I "cheated" a bit on Friday and entered Thursday's menu in FitDay because someone asked me how my carbs are spread throughout the day. It obviously didn't affect how I ate on Thursday.

Before that...

I'm in OWL Rung 4, so although my protein should still stay around 30%, my carbohydrate percentage is higher than the Induction 5% and my (dietary! ) fat percentage is lower than the Induction 65%.

I do not recommend anyone to give up using FitDay. Some of us may be aware of how much fat and/or protein we need, while others have a tendency to overeat protein. Others have a tendency to overeat in general (fat, protein and/or carbs) and for them watching calories can be useful. If you are using FitDay or some other similar tool and find it helps you, please keep using it, especially if you are at the beginning of your Atkins! I've been doing Atkins for quite some time now and experience probably played a role in me knowing how much fat & protein I need to eat.

Okay. Now the numbers.

            Sunday    Monday    Tuesday    Wednesday    Thursday    Friday    Saturday  
Week 1       2534      1338       1455        1727        2212       2048       1341
Week 2       1171      1528       2549        1885        1560       1925       2565
Week 3       1302      1332       1564        1938        1591       2216       2347
Week 4       2463      1464       2144        1422        1803       1882       1781

Averages:

Week 1       1808 calories     32% protein     12% carbohydrate     56% fat
Week 2       1883 calories     29% protein     11% carbohydrate     60% fat
Week 3       1756 calories     29% protein     14% carbohydrate     57% fat
Week 4       1851 calories     30% protein     13% carbohydrate     57% fat

After week 2 I increased my carb level, which is why my carb calories are higher in weeks 3 and 4 than in weeks 1 and 2.

I lost 2 lbs and a little over 5 inches, which is much better than what I usually lose. I don't think it has anything to do with my carbs or calories, because they didn't change significantly (the carbs actually went up). I have been walking more though and I believe that is what made a difference.

So if anyone is wondering how many calories he/she should eat per day, it seems to vary a lot (1171-2565) if you (or rather, I) go only by hunger. If someone would only see my Sunday from week 2, they'd almost think I'm doing Kimkins (lol). And if they saw only the Saturday of week 2, they'd think I'm crazy for thinking I'll ever lose weight by eating this way.

[neutronnorman]

Re: HELP! How many calories...

You stagger your calories, that's what I do. I believe that may help by 'confusing' your metabolism, therefore it can't reach a set point. The body has a way of adapting to any repetitive stimulus quite rapidly.






Cheez...the next thing she'll convince us is about the existence of magnetic monopoles...

[ErinB]

Re: HELP! How many calories...

Thank you for doing this and sharing the results, Georgiana. I am one who wonders a lot where the calories should be, given that I have these possible strikes against me for weight loss: female, age 65, underactive thyroid (treated, of course), must be on a diuretic (small dose, but necessary).

I call myself Rung 3, so I can add a small amount of dairy or nuts now and then, but my carbs are primarily from veggies.

I didn't start using fitday until about 2 1/2 weeks ago, but my average for the past two weeks is:


Calories: 1,454
Fat: 62%
Protein: 26%
Carbs: 12%
Net carbs: 25.5 grams
Dietary Fiber: 18.4 grams
Protein: 75.1 grams (wondering if this is too high)

My exercise routine is currently as follows:

M-Sat: One hour on the big Precor elliptical, either interval or fat burner program. I am up to 4 2/3 miles per day. The summary tells me I am burning about 650 calories per workout currently, whatever that means in reality.

Monday and Thursday: One hour lower body weight/strength training. I give it everything I can and gradually am able to increase reps/weights.

Tuesday and Friday: One hour upper body weight/strength training. Gradually improving in reps/weights

Weight loss is still quite slow for me. (For the 13 months or so I have been trying to shed the weight, my loss has averaged about 5.5 lbs. per month.)

From what you showed us, I can only see a couple of things that may help me:
1. Reducing the protein to 50 grams per day.
2. Getting the nerve to vary the calories each day as hunger dictates (I don't trust me there much yet). I have been keeping calories fairly even day to day.

Any thoughts about this?

[Georgiana]

Re: HELP! How many calories...

Thank you for doing this and sharing the results, Georgiana. I am one who wonders a lot where the calories should be, given that I have these possible strikes against me for weight loss: female, age 65, underactive thyroid (treated, of course), must be on a diuretic (small dose, but necessary).

Did you discuss with your doctor replacing the diuretic with L-taurine?

Protein: 75.1 grams (wondering if this is too high)

No, it's not too high. I made some posts about protein requirements today, so you might want to check this thread: http://www.atkinsdietbulletinboard.c...questions.html

According to that formula that says to multiply your weight (in lbs) by 0.4, you need a minimum of 80 g of protein per day. If you are hungry with 80 grams, increase this amount by something like 10% and see how your hunger changes. According to the guys from the Atkins Center, you can say if you ate too little protein if you're hungry an hour or so after a meal. If you are active, you need more protein. Looking at your exercise you could increase your protein a little. Assuming you keep your calories the same, try upping it to 30% or so... that would require 30-40 more grams of protein than what you are eating now. If this seems a lot, increase it by 10% at a time... so about 7-8 g of protein. I'm not sure if it would change anything in your weight loss though... maybe in the long term, as you are building muscle more efficiently, the extra muscle will help burn more calories.

Monday and Thursday: One hour lower body weight/strength training. I give it everything I can and gradually am able to increase reps/weights.

That's awesome! Good for you!

Weight loss is still quite slow for me. (For the 13 months or so I have been trying to shed the weight, my loss has averaged about 5.5 lbs. per month.)

Not so bad, I think. 5.5 lbs per month is almost 1.5 lbs per week, which is a good weight loss rate!

By the way, I'm just curious, did your thyroid medication need to be adjusted since you started Atkins? Were all the 70+ lbs lost on Atkins?

From what you showed us, I can only see a couple of things that may help me:
1. Reducing the protein to 50 grams per day.

From what I showed you?!?!?!

No, my protein is around 135 grams per day (on average). Now I eat more than I was eating at the uni (since I cook, I can cook what I like and how I like). I'm wondering if this has anything to do with my weight loss... Anyway, so you need minimum 75-80 grams of protein per day, just to supply your body with the required amino acids and to get enough glucose from protein via gluconeogenesis.

2. Getting the nerve to vary the calories each day as hunger dictates (I don't trust me there much yet). I have been keeping calories fairly even day to day.

I can "blame" Megs and 2Big for my experiment. I was freaking out when I started these four weeks as well. My first day had over 2500 calories, and I knew I was too much even though I didn't know the exact number of calories. But then, when I saw that some days I really eat very little if I don't push food down my neck just to get ~1700-1900 calories, I became more relaxed about things. I was surprised this morning when I saw the averages --- they are incredibly close to the numbers I usually had. I should also admit that I used the blood sugar test like an addict in the first 1-2 weeks, especially during my "hungry days". I just wasn't sure if I am eating more because I'm hungry or because I messed something up.

Anyway, now I really like doing things this way and I think I'll stick to this method of tracking my carbs. I'll only use FitDay when I add new foods into my diet (I still don't trust me 100%, see?).

[ErinB]

Re: HELP! How many calories...

Wow, thanks again. A lot to think about here, far more than I had even hoped. My overall thought about the protein info is, "No wonder I have been feeling hungry since I started watching the calories and reducing the amount of protein after starting to use fitday." After going through Mitzi's stats blog, I decided I probably should not be eating as many calories as she could because I am older. The only place I could see to cut back was protein.

Did you discuss with your doctor replacing the diuretic with L-taurine?

No, not yet. That is on my list for next time I visit, however. I take half a HCT-TRIAMTERENE, 50-75MG (potassium saving diuretic) daily. This is not for blood pressure. I have veinous insufficiency. The doc told me I would probably need these the rest of my life to keep my feet/calves from swelling painfully. He said it is not actually caused by the thyroid issue, but it is a condition he frequently sees in patients with an underactive thyroid.

He told me to experiment to see if I actually need it every day by occasionally backing off to see what happens, to resume taking it if I notice weight gain (did he realize he was talking to a woman?) or swelling. I tried several times to cut back, but immediately notice the swelling in my toes, then feet, then ankles, then calves. This is because the little valves in my veins are not working properly to allow the blood flow back to the heart.

Because I knew it was ok to try backing off, I decided to try the L-Taurine. I also added some green tea daily. This did not help me. So, I decided to take the diuretic and talk to the doc when I see him. I sort of dread discussing it, don't really want to get into the fact I am doing Atkins since I have no idea how he would feel about that.

I did read your posts in the other thread and find it all very interesting, so glad you take the time to help us out with all this.

According to that formula that says to multiply your weight (in lbs) by 0.4, you need a minimum of 80 g of protein per day. If you are hungry with 80 grams, increase this amount by something like 10% and see how your hunger changes. According to the guys from the Atkins Center, you can say if you ate too little protein if you're hungry an hour or so after a meal. If you are active, you need more protein. Looking at your exercise you could increase your protein a little. Assuming you keep your calories the same, try upping it to 30% or so... that would require 30-40 more grams of protein than what you are eating now. If this seems a lot, increase it by 10% at a time... so about 7-8 g of protein. I'm not sure if it would change anything in your weight loss though... maybe in the long term, as you are building muscle more efficiently, the extra muscle will help burn more calories.

That helps a lot. I was confused about what "medium protein" means, have heard that a lot here. I figured, since I really like meat, cheese, eggs, I was probably overeating that. I can't say I have been hungry that soon after a meal, but I have been hungry well before dinner after having a 2 oz. (instead of 4 oz.) steak for lunch with a veggie fried in olive oil. Since I thought I needed to do that, I was hoping that would stop over time once my body got used to it.

I probably need to read the article to which you pointed in the other thread, but this part has me wondering ...

"According to that formula that says to multiply your weight (in lbs) by 0.4, you need a minimum of 80 g of protein per day."

I am not doubting you because I know you are one very smart young lady. It does suprise me, however. If you had said I need to use the formula based on my ideal weight, rather than on my current weight, I wouldn't have batted an eyelash. 135 x 0.4 = 54g, which is some 14 grams or so over what fitday calls my RDA. It seems logical I would want to provide the necessary nutrients to support that weight. It just seems if I provide enough to support my current weight, then I will continue to maintain my current weight. Hopefully, the article will help clear the cobwebs in my brain.

By the way, I'm just curious, did your thyroid medication need to be adjusted since you started Atkins? Were all the 70+ lbs lost on Atkins?

Not yet, but I should receive a notice to come in for this year's labs tracking my TSH and potassium levels fairly soon. I guess we'll see. I have absolutely no symptoms to indicate I'm going hyper, however, so I'll be surprised if I need much of an adjustment.

About the pounds lost before I started lurking here. I could say, "Yes, all lost on Atkins", but ... I now realize I did not do Atkins as it should be done even though I really thought that is what I was doing. Now I know I really never did a pure induction, for one thing. I measured/weighed nothing, used my non-trustworthy eyeball. My veggies were not properly balanced between salad veggies and other, probably ate too much spinach and tomatoes. I didn't give up the coffee with cream, so I was having more carbs than I thought I was and too much cream. I also munched on nuts during my "so called" induction. I didn't just sit there eating a sack of nuts, but 1/4 cup of salted almond slivers or macadamias did not really belong on Atkin's induction. I'm sure I ate enough calories I would have been appalled had I plugged it all into fitday, even though my eyeball told me I was probably averaging 1500 calories a day.

Still, from the records I kept, it looks like I lost about 10 pounds during the first two weeks. I posted some info about my progress to date when I joined this site: http://www.atkinsdietbulletinboard.c...ml#post1069819

I suspect I would have done better had I re-read DANDR and found this site at the beginning. I'm not going to kick myself too hard, though. What I did was certainly better than continuing to procrastinate about addressing the weight issue.

Anyway, now I really like doing things this way and I think I'll stick to this method of tracking my carbs. I'll only use FitDay when I add new foods into my diet (I still don't trust me 100%, see?).

I will be watching and cheering you on. I need a lot more experience with the tracking before I'll be so brave.

Thanks again for the help and the encouragement.

[Georgiana]

Re: HELP! How many calories...

That helps a lot. I was confused about what "medium protein" means, have heard that a lot here. I figured, since I really like meat, cheese, eggs, I was probably overeating that. I can't say I have been hungry that soon after a meal, but I have been hungry well before dinner after having a 2 oz. (instead of 4 oz.) steak for lunch with a veggie fried in olive oil. Since I thought I needed to do that, I was hoping that would stop over time once my body got used to it.

I probably need to read the article to which you pointed in the other thread, but this part has me wondering ...

"According to that formula that says to multiply your weight (in lbs) by 0.4, you need a minimum of 80 g of protein per day."

I am not doubting you because I know you are one very smart young lady. It does suprise me, however. If you had said I need to use the formula based on my ideal weight, rather than on my current weight, I wouldn't have batted an eyelash. 135 x 0.4 = 54g, which is some 14 grams or so over what fitday calls my RDA. It seems logical I would want to provide the necessary nutrients to support that weight. It just seems if I provide enough to support my current weight, then I will continue to maintain my current weight. Hopefully, the article will help clear the cobwebs in my brain.

FitDay goes by the SAD, which has 10-35% protein. It probably also uses the BMR to find the numbers, when in fact you are burning calories above your BMR (assuming the BMR given by formulas is your true BMR). On Atkins we need more protein, because we need to get some glucose out of it, for those cells lacking mitochondria. So the protein you eat on Atkins will be used for all the stuff it is used on a regular diet, but also for gluconeogenesis.

Also, as you get closer to your goal, the word "minimum" becomes more and more important. For example, if let's say I take 145 lbs as my goal and multiply this by 0.4, I only get 58 g of protein. So if this amount of protein were to represent 30% of my total calories, I'd have to eat less than 800 calories per day.... which ain't gonna happen.

But these approximations are really rough. I think (hope!) after a while you just get the hang of it and know from the way you feel how much protein you have to eat and how much fat and how many calories, carbs and so on. I still go by the 30% rule, since my calories seem to be pretty constant from week to week and 135 g of protein look about right. I do plan to experiment with my protein intake when I get back to the university in September and see what difference it makes varying the amount a little... but for now... I'll keep it simple. When I'll start playing with the numbers, I'll definitely be recording everything in the Stats.

[liv]

Re: HELP! How many calories...

Interesting discussion ladies and interesting experiment G.
You are braver than me. If (and when) I lose sight of fitday something happens with my eating that is not good. But I am working on it.
How many carbs are you having G approximately?
Looking at yours I can see that my menu would be different in how much fat I am eating.

[Georgiana]

Re: HELP! How many calories...

How many carbs are you having G approximately?

I kept them at 40-45 g in the first two weeks. And then increased to 45-50 g in the next two. I think I am lucky to have a high CCLL. Although I am exercising regularly, I am less active than I was before June (no gym and a lot of work... can't wait to get back at the uni!) and I seem to be losing at 45-50 g.

Below is the menu I had last Thursday. For some foods I only approximated the nutritional info, because I eat lunch at the cafeteria here and sometimes I take more food at lunch to have for dinner (e.g. ratatouille & chicken in the menu below). The menu had 1803 calories, 118 g fat (31.6 g saturated, 27.7 g polyunsaturated, 51.3 g monounsaturated), 80.4 g carbohydrate, 32.6 g dietary fiber, 47.8 net carbs, 114 g protein. The percentages were 59% fat, 16% carbs, 25% protein.

Breakfast (8.5 g carbohydrate, 2.7 g dietary fiber, 5.8 net carbs)
omelet from 2 eggs, filled with 1.5 cups spinach (measured raw), 2 tbsp of feta cheese and 0.5 oz roasted walnuts, and cooked in 5 g of butter
1/4 cup strawberries with 1 tbsp of heavy cream

Snack (7.7 g carbohydrate, 1 g dietary fiber, 6.7 net carbs)
1/2 cup whole milk yogurt
1/2 oz walnuts

Lunch (20.5 g carbohydrate, 9 g dietary fiber, 11.5 net carbs)
1 medium chicken leg, roasted and with some spices
2 cups green beans (measured raw)
2 tomato halves (so 1 tomato), grilled and topped with about 1 tbsp of grated parmesan cheese

Snack (13 g carbohydrate, 10 g dietary fiber, 3 net carbs)
1/2 avocado (green) with lemon juice from 1/2 lemon
2 oz oven-roasted chicken breast sticks

Dinner (30.7 total carbs, 9.9 g dietary fiber, 20.8 net carbs)
1 medium chicken leg, roasted and spiced (same as for lunch)
2 cups riced cauliflower (measured raw)
1.5 cups ratatouille

[canucme]

Re: HELP! How many calories...

i keep hearing that regardless of what diet you're on you have to burn more calories than you consume. i was an engineering student and my chem professor beat that into our heads for 4 semesters! he always told us it didn't matter which diet you were on either. as long as you burn more calories than you consume you would lose weight. he always told us that back in the old days it was much easier. there was no atkins or south beach or subway or whatever. you wanted to lose weight you ate healthy and worked out. you want to lose more weight... train harder.

[liv]

Re: HELP! How many calories...

i keep hearing that regardless of what diet you're on you have to burn more calories than you consume. i was an engineering student and my chem professor beat that into our heads for 4 semesters! he always told us it didn't matter which diet you were on either. as long as you burn more calories than you consume you would lose weight. he always told us that back in the old days it was much easier. there was no atkins or south beach or subway or whatever. you wanted to lose weight you ate healthy and worked out. you want to lose more weight... train harder.

I suggest you read Atkins A new Diet Revolution for a different perspective.
Also I recommend Taubes: Good Calories Bad Calories.

[Georgiana]

Re: HELP! How many calories...

i keep hearing that regardless of what diet you're on you have to burn more calories than you consume. i was an engineering student and my chem professor beat that into our heads for 4 semesters! he always told us it didn't matter which diet you were on either. as long as you burn more calories than you consume you would lose weight. he always told us that back in the old days it was much easier. there was no atkins or south beach or subway or whatever. you wanted to lose weight you ate healthy and worked out. you want to lose more weight... train harder.

Your chemistry professor was right. You do need to burn more calories than you eat in order to lose weight. But calories in different foods "count" differently and, on average, low carbers may be able to eat 200-400 calories more than they were on a "standard" diet --- this is the so-called "metabolic advantage" (which no, does not contradict the laws of thermodynamics). Furthermore, you also have the advantage of a reduced appetite as a result of ketosis.

[canucme]

Re: HELP! How many calories...

I suggest you read Atkins A new Diet Revolution for a different perspective.
Also I recommend Taubes: Good Calories Bad Calories.

i really want to read the atkins book but just haven't had the time. i did some research over the weekend though and the one consistent fact with most professionals is that you must burn more calories than you consume. i understand what you mean about good calories vs bad so obviously if you eat a sensible, healthy, balanced diet and exercise consistently then you should drop weight. i looked at the atkins website too and they suggested men be at around 2000 calories. when you're eating fat filled things like meat and cheese and ranch dressing on a salad 2000 calories isn't much.

[neutronnorman]

Re: HELP! How many calories...

i keep hearing that regardless of what diet you're on you have to burn more calories than you consume. i was an engineering student and my chem professor beat that into our heads for 4 semesters! he always told us it didn't matter which diet you were on either. as long as you burn more calories than you consume you would lose weight. he always told us that back in the old days it was much easier. there was no atkins or south beach or subway or whatever. you wanted to lose weight you ate healthy and worked out. you want to lose more weight... train harder.

Law of thermodynamics. The plus side to low carb dieting is that you can consume about 300 calories more that the established food pyramid allows and lose weight. I'm pretty sure it has to do with hormonal modulation and insulin control.

[ErinB]

Re: HELP! How many calories...

Apologies for bumping up an old topic, but I wanted to thank Georgiana for the time she spent on her posts here. Up until that point, I had an average monthly weight loss of a little over 5 pounds per month. After adjusting percentages based on what she said, my weight loss from around the second week in August to one month later in September was 11 pounds! Wow! I was simply amazed!

What did I do? Used fitday to help me keep the protein around 100g per day, particularly on the days when I did the two-hour workouts at the gym (1 hour cardio, 1 hour weights) and I also kept the net carbs between 30 and 35, mostly veggie carbs. Following what I learned from our adorable little Mitzi's stats, I also made certain to get as much fiber in with those veggies as I could. Looking at my food reports, I averaged about 1500+ calories a day, although the calories weren't the same every day. That combo seems to be working for me, at least for now and I have stopped being hungry.

So, thank you both, Georgiana and Mitzi! I'm even happier with this WOE now! is so very helpful!

[Georgiana]

Re: HELP! How many calories...

Oops! Looks like I missed some replies here. My ADBB mailbox is a mess!

Erin, thanks for sharing what worked for you.