negative posters

[forbey]

Re: negative posters

kline, I've been a member here a long time and I agree with you that there are times when a post appears to be "negative". But posting a thread about this negativity without giving us ways to improve our writing styles isn't very helpful. So, let's do some role-playing and I'll post as Newbie101 and you can tell us how you would like us to respond in a positive way.

Here we go.

Hi everyone! I'm Newbie101. I just started Atkins 3 days ago and I want to make sure I'm doing everything okay. Here's what I've been eating. Breakfast 4 slices bacon, 5 eggs, 2 cups coffee and 3 Splendas. For lunch I have 3 McDonald cheeseburgers (no bun!) and a diet coke. For a snack I have a few cheese sticks. And dinner I have either chicken, turkey or steak.

how am I doing?

This is an easy one:

"Hi Newbie101, welcome ADBB:

Your menu at the first look appears like many who attempt to begin Atkins without fully undersatnding the whole approach. At first glance, it appears that your menu is lacking a sufficient quantity of fiber and nutrients in the form of vegetables. According to DANDR'02 you should include in your meal plan 2 to 3 cups of loose salad vegetable as listed in the acceptible foods list (provide link here). This serves many purposes, two of which are to provide your digestive system the much need roughage necessary to keep your system functioning properly, failure to add in the fiber can result in a clogged digestive tract. Second, there are many nutrients found in vegetables not found in other foods.

There is some information you need to look into on you side, most of which can be found on the food labels:

1. Is your bacon processed with any type of sugar (carb) and does it contain nitrates? These hidden carbs can unecessarily load up your net carb count and leave you wondering why you aren't loosing weight

2. Is your coffee decaffinated? Caffein can cause an increase in insulin production resulting in rapid drops in your blood sugar which could result in cravings for sweets.

3. Make sure you count one carb of your total quantity of net carbs for each packet of Splenda you use.

4. Diet Coke contains caffeine and artificial sweetners that are not on the induction acceptible food list. Have been a Diet Coke addict for many years, I understand the problem with cutting it cold turkey, but Diet Coke is not on the Induction List of foods and it can have serious consequences which have a high likelihood of reducing the efectiveness of your Atkins program.

5. Watch your cheese intake. While cheese is a great high fat source, and any easy snack, the rules of Induction limit daily consumption to 4 ounces of cheese from the acceptible food list. Excessive cheese, especially without sufficient fiber and water in you diet can clog the heck out of your digestive tract.

As a side note: the bacon, eggs, cheese burgers all fit well into the Atkins plan; however, my recommendation would be to eat your meals slowly and stop yourself when you feel satisfied and not stuffed. As the program advances your appetite will naturally decrease but at first, the previous habits of eating can result in overeating and feeling uncomfortable after meals.

Finally, make sure you are drinking plenty of water. DANDR'02 recommends eight 8 ounce glasses of water daily. Personally, I have found my system works much better when I extend that amount drastically, So I would recommend the 64 ounces as a bare minimum.

If you haven't read Dr. Atkins New Diet Revolution, 2002 Edition, I would highly recommend doing so and keep the books handy so you can check back on it periodically.

Check back on the forum periodically because there is a lot of great information here in the form of tips on following the program, recipes and members you can lean on for support.

Congradulations on a start to a new life."

[Aprile]

Re: negative posters

*(Stirs the pot)*
/rant
OP: Is it ok for me to ask someone based on the information in a post:
1) Are you reading DANDR (2002)?
2) Are you eating your required vegetables?
3) Why are you choosing to stay on induction?

And, is it ok to suggest that they follow the book's guidelines? I mean it's not THE BIBLE, but it is the way we are *supposed* to be doing business here. It's about healthy weight loss, not just weight loss right?

/rant off

I find these types of posts are the ones that make me think the most about what I am doing. With the point blankness I can say, yes I have read the book. Oh maybe I am not eating the right amount of veggies, good point. The why am I staying on Induction? Hmmm good question. Why am I? Maybe I need to research that and see. I don't find those questions rude at all. I find they make me think about what I am doing and why I am doing it. I don't come here to getting patted on the back and awww'd all the time.

I come here to figure out how to do this WOE right from people who have been doing it alot longer than me. I don't expect people to cheer me on when I go away from the plans guidelines. This board states from the get go they follow the rules of DANDR 2002. They do not support a modified version whether it be from another version of Dr. Atkins book or your own version.

If you don't like what a poster has posted just skip over it. It takes just a few seconds to realize you don't like what it says and move on to the next post.

Calling people out is not going to change anything.

[LateNiteDiner]

Re: negative posters

This is an easy one:
"Hi Newbie101, welcome ADBB...

Forbey, this is a nice response as it includes an explanation of why Newbie101 should follow the diet a little stricter. I can see how the explanation might come off less aggressive than a simple "do it like this" or "read the book" response, but imagine writing that answer for the 15 newbies that check in each day and then multiply that by the number of days, weeks and years that some of our veterans have been around. Even I can begin to see how one's responses might change from a new parent's desire to explain why her child should not stick his finger in the light socket to "because I said so."

[forbey]

Re: negative posters

You do realize your posts aren't helping anyone, they are just causing more of the drama that you claim to not like. Bullying works both ways, think some forget that. Keeping things positive does not include bashing others or creating drama even if you dont' like what they do. That puts you down on their level. Not a nice place to be.

So again, lets move forward and show others by example. Not that I believe any board can be totally positive but at least you know you can be. That doesnt' mean being all squishy or sugar coating things. Just be respectful and realize not everyone responds to posters the same way and sometimes you have to check the way you post.

Poohbear,

Unfortunately, this is not a pleasant topic, but it is one that has popped up in the past and it is worth discussing. As long as it stick to this threadm then everyone involved should understand what the discussion is and decide if they choose to read or participate in the discussion.

As part of the discussion, by choice, I try to keep my comments on the discussion and if I disagree with someone, I reserve the right to say so.

As far as being a bully, all I can say is if I get pushed, I shove. I no one pushes, no one gets shoved. AND, I have been known to come to the aid of others being pushed.

As for my comments in any other thread, ESPECIALLY where comments on the successes, failures and / or emotions related to someone else living within Atkins, I go out of my way to be supportive and positive.

However, a debate has at least 2 sides and there is nothing wrong with supporting the side I believe in.

forbey

[poobears1972]

Re: negative posters

I absolutely agree you can state your side. All I'm saying is it can be done with insults or bashing. If someone pushes of course counter but it can be done with class without sinking to their level and looking just as bad or worse than they do. That's all I'm saying.

In the end this is a message board and you are free to post however you please. Of course those others that you dont' like have that same right. Some one has to be the bigger person or the whole board will suffer.

[not2late]

Re: negative posters

This is an easy one:

"Hi Newbie101, welcome ADBB:

Your menu at the first look appears like many who attempt to begin Atkins without fully undersatnding the whole approach. At first glance, it appears that your menu is lacking a sufficient quantity of fiber and nutrients in the form of vegetables. According to DANDR'02 you should include in your meal plan 2 to 3 cups of loose salad vegetable as listed in the acceptible foods list (provide link here). This serves many purposes, two of which are to provide your digestive system the much need roughage necessary to keep your system functioning properly, failure to add in the fiber can result in a clogged digestive tract. Second, there are many nutrients found in vegetables not found in other foods.

There is some information you need to look into on you side, most of which can be found on the food labels:

1. Is your bacon processed with any type of sugar (carb) and does it contain nitrates? These hidden carbs can unecessarily load up your net carb count and leave you wondering why you aren't loosing weight

My bacon says BACON and I thought you could eat BACON on Atkins.

2. Is your coffee decaffinated? Caffein can cause an increase in insulin production resulting in rapid drops in your blood sugar which could result in cravings for sweets.

I read on another site that caffeine only causes cravings and if you don't have cravings, you can drink caffeine. I don't have cravings. So I'm not worried about caffeine. Besides, if I do get cravings, I'll just eat an Atkins bar.

3. Make sure you count one carb of your total quantity of net carbs for each packet of Splenda you use.

Splenda has zero carbs. So I don't see why I have to limit it.

4. Diet Coke contains caffeine and artificial sweetners that are not on the induction acceptible food list. Have been a Diet Coke addict for many years, I understand the problem with cutting it cold turkey, but Diet Coke is not on the Induction List of foods and it can have serious consequences which have a high likelihood of reducing the efectiveness of your Atkins program.

It was a Coke Zero. So it didn't have caffeine. Besides, caffeine doesn't give me any cravings so I don't see why I have to avoid it.

And how high is the likelihood of reducing the effectiveness? What studies do you have to back it up? Tell me what they because I work as a research coordinator at a major university and I can look up these studies.

5. Watch your cheese intake. While cheese is a great high fat source, and any easy snack, the rules of Induction limit daily consumption to 4 ounces of cheese from the acceptible food list. Excessive cheese, especially without sufficient fiber and water in you diet can clog the heck out of your digestive tract.

Cheese has 0 carbs. So why do I have to limit it? Also, I'm having no problems going to the bathroom! So cheese isn't clogging any of my pipes!
Besides, if I don't eat my cheese snack, I get really hungry and there isn't anything here for me to eat except the candy bars in the machines. So isn't it better for me to eat the cheese than to eat the candy bars?

As a side note: the bacon, eggs, cheese burgers all fit well into the Atkins plan; however, my recommendation would be to eat your meals slowly and stop yourself when you feel satisfied and not stuffed. As the program advances your appetite will naturally decrease but at first, the previous habits of eating can result in overeating and feeling uncomfortable after meals.

Stop putting words into my mouth! I never said I stuff myself! I eat those burgers because that's what fills me up.

Finally, make sure you are drinking plenty of water. DANDR'02 recommends eight 8 ounce glasses of water daily. Personally, I have found my system works much better when I extend that amount drastically, So I would recommend the 64 ounces as a bare minimum.

I hate water. It makes me sick everytime I get any in my mouth. I mean, I want to vomit whenever I have to drink water. If I can't drink soda or coffee, can I drink Crystal Light instead? I mean, it's made from water so it should be as good as water.

If you haven't read Dr. Atkins New Diet Revolution, 2002 Edition, I would highly recommend doing so and keep the books handy so you can check back on it periodically.

I'm a very busy person. I don't have time to read a big book. Just tell me what I need to do to lose these 100 pounds by October 1. And I definitely can't go around carrry a big book with me!

Check back on the forum periodically because there is a lot of great information here in the form of tips on following the program, recipes and members you can lean on for support.

Congradulations on a start to a new life."

Thanks for your "help".

[not2late]

Re: negative posters

PS I hate vegetables. Do I have to eat vegetables? And my friend did Atkins a few years ago. She lost 75 pounds without ever having to eat a vegetable!

[Carne!]

Re: negative posters

My bacon says BACON and I thought you could eat BACON on Atkins.

I read on another site that caffeine only causes cravings and if you don't have cravings, you can drink caffeine. I don't have cravings. So I'm not worried about caffeine. Besides, if I do get cravings, I'll just eat an Atkins bar.

Splenda has zero carbs. So I don't see why I have to limit it.

It was a Coke Zero. So it didn't have caffeine. Besides, caffeine doesn't give me any cravings so I don't see why I have to avoid it.

And how high is the likelihood of reducing the effectiveness? What studies do you have to back it up? Tell me what they because I work as a research coordinator at a major university and I can look up these studies.
[COLOR=#0000ff]
Cheese has 0 carbs. So why do I have to limit it? Also, I'm having no problems going to the bathroom! So cheese isn't clogging any of my pipes!
Besides, if I don't eat my cheese snack, I get really hungry and there isn't anything here for me to eat except the candy bars in the machines. So isn't it better for me to eat the cheese than to eat the candy bars?
[COLOR=#0000ff]

Stop putting words into my mouth! I never said I stuff myself! I eat those burgers because that's what fills me up.

[COLOR=#0000ff]

I hate water. It makes me sick everytime I get any in my mouth. I mean, I want to vomit whenever I have to drink water. If I can't drink soda or coffee, can I drink Crystal Light instead? I mean, it's made from water so it should be as good as water.

[COLOR=#0000ff]

I'm a very busy person. I don't have time to read a big book. Just tell me what I need to do to lose these 100 pounds by October 1. And I definitely can't go around carrry a big book with me!


Thanks for your "help".

also how many carbs does asparagus have?

[forbey]

Re: negative posters

Forbey, this is a nice response as it includes an explanation of why Newbie101 should follow the diet a little stricter. I can see how the explanation might come off less aggressive than a simple "do it like this" or "read the book" response, but imagine writing that answer for the 15 newbies that check in each day and then multiply that by the number of days, weeks and years that some of our veterans have been around. Even I can begin to see how one's responses might change from a new parent's desire to explain why her child should not stick his finger in the light socket to "because I said so."

That might be a good reason to do 1 or 2 things (or more): 1. Save your response to a word processing file and cut and past it when needed. The problem with that is that absolutely every situation contains variables and the likelihood is slim that all the variables would be the same. 2. Write it once and use it as a reference and link them to it with the addition of "Welcome to Atkins, as you begin the Induction program there could be some pitfalls you might encounter. I would recommend you go here ... and read a little further, etc.

As the father of 3 and the grandfather of 4, I understand the need to "immediately" stop a child from sticking a fork in a socket. Unless someone tells you they heard adding rat poison to the eggs in the morney would help them reach ketosis, I haven't found anything in the Atkins plan worth screaming :STOP DON'T DO THAT! The fact is, if you think you are following the rules of induction and you find out you aren't. What has already entered you mouth is HISTORY. The only thing you can do is start with the next bite. Dr. Atkins himself said as much. The old addage "Today is the first day of the rest of your life." doesn't just mean Friday March 26, 2010. Every 24 hours tomorrow becomes today. Which means with helpful, considerate guidance, everyone gets to begin the next "today" with a little brighter outlook tha yesterday.

As for those who choose to be the ones to scream STOP, DON'T DO THAT! Maybe today would be a good time to take a vacation from the bulletin board and reagain their perspective. It could vary well be that spending that much time with people who want to follow induction but don't want to learn what induction is could be resulting in a decrease in tolerance, understanding and patience.

[Minerva]

Re: negative posters

My bacon says BACON and I thought you could eat BACON on Atkins.

I read on another site that caffeine only causes cravings and if you don't have cravings, you can drink caffeine. I don't have cravings. So I'm not worried about caffeine. Besides, if I do get cravings, I'll just eat an Atkins bar.

Splenda has zero carbs. So I don't see why I have to limit it.

It was a Coke Zero. So it didn't have caffeine. Besides, caffeine doesn't give me any cravings so I don't see why I have to avoid it.

And how high is the likelihood of reducing the effectiveness? What studies do you have to back it up? Tell me what they because I work as a research coordinator at a major university and I can look up these studies.
[COLOR=#0000ff]
Cheese has 0 carbs. So why do I have to limit it? Also, I'm having no problems going to the bathroom! So cheese isn't clogging any of my pipes!
Besides, if I don't eat my cheese snack, I get really hungry and there isn't anything here for me to eat except the candy bars in the machines. So isn't it better for me to eat the cheese than to eat the candy bars?
[COLOR=#0000ff]

Stop putting words into my mouth! I never said I stuff myself! I eat those burgers because that's what fills me up.

[COLOR=#0000ff]

I hate water. It makes me sick everytime I get any in my mouth. I mean, I want to vomit whenever I have to drink water. If I can't drink soda or coffee, can I drink Crystal Light instead? I mean, it's made from water so it should be as good as water.

[COLOR=#0000ff]

I'm a very busy person. I don't have time to read a big book. Just tell me what I need to do to lose these 100 pounds by October 1. And I definitely can't go around carrry a big book with me!


Thanks for your "help".

Umm, this kind of sounds like it's bashing newbies.

The rudeness of the "newbie" is inexcusable, however I've had a few questions about cheese, caffeine, and water myself, despite having read DANDR and the original Atkins book. Sometimes people are interested in fine points and "why"s. Asking "why" doesn't necessarily mean they want to start an argument.

And often when a person understands the reasoning behind something, they'll be more likely to accept it. ( This method works great for getting my kid to do or not do things, BTW.)

[not2late]

Re: negative posters

also how many carbs does asparagus have?

What does asparagus have to do with anything? I already told you I don't like vegetables.

[poobears1972]

Re: negative posters

Hey don't bash veggie haters I'm one of them LOL Ok I don't hate them all just the majority of them. I can handle a few basic ones.

[not2late]

Re: negative posters

Umm, this kind of sounds like it's bashing newbies.

The rudeness of the "newbie" is inexcusable, however I've had a few questions about cheese, caffeine, and water myself, despite having read DANDR and the original Atkins book. Sometimes people are interested in fine points and "why"s. Asking "why" doesn't necessarily mean they want to start an argument.

And often when a person understands the reasoning behind something, they'll be more likely to accept it. ( This method works great for getting my kid to do or not do things, BTW.)

Who's being rude? Not me! I'm a newbie asking how I'm doing on Atkins, and this guy is making all these assumptions that I'm "stuffing" myself with burgers, that caffeine is bad for me because I'll get cravings which I don't, telling me I have to drink water eventhough it makes me sick to my stomach.

And I read the book, by the way. It doesn't say I HAVE to eat vegetables. It says I have to get most of my carbs from vegetables and I'm not eating any carbs so half of zero is zero. It also says that people who are caffeine dependent should avoid caffeine. I'm not caffeine dependent! And it doesn't say that I can't eat burgers and bacon.

I just ask a simple question and I get a sermon and alot of assumptions about me.

[LateNiteDiner]

Re: negative posters

That might be a good reason to do 1 or 2 things (or more): 1. Save your response to a word processing file and cut and past it when needed. The problem with that is that absolutely every situation contains variables and the likelihood is slim that all the variables would be the same.

The variables are exactly why I think the veterans begin to respond with "short" answers. It can be annoying to constantly regurgitate the same information repeatedly but with tweaks. However, out of patience, they respond in some way rather than completely ignore the question. There are some posts by newbies that would have no response if not for the tough love. Where are the "I love you, you love me" responses for those (repetitive) threads?

The old addage "Today is the first day of the rest of your life." doesn't just mean Friday March 26, 2010. Every 24 hours tomorrow becomes today. Which means with helpful, considerate guidance, everyone gets to begin the next "today" with a little brighter outlook tha yesterday.

My first post on this thread specifically touched on the need for forum members to have response from both the good cop and the bad cop:

Additionally, I would make the analogy to a family where one parent offers love and encouragement while the other maintains discipline and demands respect. I believe that children in this environment, (who likely don't enjoy their mixed environment), are better off in the long run. In the same way, it takes both the loving, warm responses AND the harsh, demanding responses to yield the best results. As a parent who fulfills the latter role, I have to agree that whether you like or dislike the negative reinforcement, it is a necessary counterpart to the warmth that the other half of ADBB's members offer.

As for those who choose to be the ones to scream STOP, DON'T DO THAT! Maybe today would be a good time to take a vacation from the bulletin board and reagain their perspective. It could vary well be that spending that much time with people who want to follow induction but don't want to learn what induction is could be resulting in a decrease in tolerance, understanding and patience.

I am not in total disagreement with this advice, although I think some posts would never get a response as previously discussed. Perhaps the answer is to have others like yourself step up and commit to answer all newcomers questions for a given day to give the Atkins alumni time to retreat. Are you willing to walk a mile in their shoes?

[forbey]

Re: negative posters

Originally Posted by not2late
My bacon says BACON and I thought you could eat BACON on Atkins.

I read on another site that caffeine only causes cravings and if you don't have cravings, you can drink caffeine. I don't have cravings. So I'm not worried about caffeine. Besides, if I do get cravings, I'll just eat an Atkins bar.

Splenda has zero carbs. So I don't see why I have to limit it.

It was a Coke Zero. So it didn't have caffeine. Besides, caffeine doesn't give me any cravings so I don't see why I have to avoid it.

And how high is the likelihood of reducing the effectiveness? What studies do you have to back it up? Tell me what they because I work as a research coordinator at a major university and I can look up these studies.
[COLOR=#0000ff]
Cheese has 0 carbs. So why do I have to limit it? Also, I'm having no problems going to the bathroom! So cheese isn't clogging any of my pipes!
Besides, if I don't eat my cheese snack, I get really hungry and there isn't anything here for me to eat except the candy bars in the machines. So isn't it better for me to eat the cheese than to eat the candy bars?
[COLOR=#0000ff]

Stop putting words into my mouth! I never said I stuff myself! I eat those burgers because that's what fills me up.

[COLOR=#0000ff]

I hate water. It makes me sick everytime I get any in my mouth. I mean, I want to vomit whenever I have to drink water. If I can't drink soda or coffee, can I drink Crystal Light instead? I mean, it's made from water so it should be as good as water.

[COLOR=#0000ff]

I'm a very busy person. I don't have time to read a big book. Just tell me what I need to do to lose these 100 pounds by October 1. And I definitely can't go around carrry a big book with me!


Thanks for your "help".
also how many carbs does asparagus have?


I certainly do appreciate you concerns and your questions. Lt me begin with the last question first. First, I love asparagus; however, I do not have a carb counter with me so I cannot look it up. When I get home, I will be sure to find the answer and get back with you.

As for the other questions, your original post informed the forum that you had chosen to start the Atkins program and that you were on day 3 of Induction. The responses I gave you were from within the guidelines found in the Dr. Atkins New Diet Revolution, 2002. In order for you to be as succesful as possible with Atkins, you not only need to follow the rules, but you need to understand those rule in order to follow them.

As Dr. Atkins states in his book, some bacon contains sugar, and you need to avoid those extra carbs.

Caffeine as part of the Atkins plan is a "no no". You are most certainly welcome to include it in your menu if you choose, but choices often result in consequences, and one of the consequences of including caffeine in your diet is a decrease success rate of experiencing a successful Atkins program.

The studies included in Dr. Atkins book are lised in the book. Being involved in the field of scientific research, I would expect you are used to doing follow up reading on research and would mostl likely understand the complexities of the studies and their associated papers than I would. However, the rather expansive list of members in this forum who are living examples of how Atkins works every day would be worth reviewing and reading their histories, blogs and advice.

Unfortunately, being a big fan of cheese, I have found that not all cheeses are created equal. Some,like bacn, do in fact contain carbs. The only way for me to do that is to read the label, and I believe it would be quicker for me to recommend reading the labels as you choose which cheeses to include in your shopping.

Again, you are free to drink water, Crystal Lite, tea, coffe or whatever you choose. However, nothing beats to hydrating and flushing effects of pure water. If you choose to drink other things, it may have a negative effect on your success using the Atkins plan.

As for the Atkins snack bars, you can choose to eat as many of them as you like. Howeverm the Atkins plan does not include them as part of the acceptible food list. I would assume this is for a reason, so I would recommend holding off on the snack bars until you transition to the Ongoing Weight Loss phase (OWL).

Based on my understanding of the Atkins plan, the likihood of your loosing 100 pounds by October 1st is slim, however, your best chance of closing in on your goal is to follow the rules of the program as closely as possible.

I'm sure many of the members of the forum will be willing to help you along the way.

Life ia all about choices. The first big step was to choose the Atkins program, your next choice will be how closely you choose to follow it.