Not following Atkins?

[bizzlekitty]

Re: Not following Atkins?

I just wanted to add to this thread that the hard tough love/strict Atkins approach here is what really helped me get myself back on track this time and made me see the light about how I was doing it wrong the first time. It was true, I wasn't doing Atkins and it took my failure to realize that. I wish someone had told me that what I was doing was "not Atkins".

I thought I could do "Atkins my way" previously, with little cheats here and there, not tracking my food, not really finding my CCLL, etc. And it was working, right, so no problem? I lost 125 lbs. Well, then I stalled long and hard and didn't know how to deal with it. My first thought? Well, maybe Atkins doesn't really work for me afterall? I had given up all those wonderful foods (that I was still having here and there) and it still didn't work? My rationale at the time was that I saw others "tweaking" how they did Atkins, both here and on other sites having these little cheats and treats, and thought I too was "doing Atkins" the same way. Perhaps I only read and saw what I wanted to and ignored all the corrections and advise that tried to help people keep to the stricter version of Atkins.

Well, turns out the tough love was what I really needed. I came back after regaining alot of weight, trying a different weight loss program, and then realizing I already knew one way of losing weight that HAD worked and hoped it might work again.

And in re-reading the book and posts here, I realized I had been doing Atkins wrong. This is why I call my journal "rediscovery of Atkins". Because I took the time this time to read the entire book, re-read the many posts here, and figured out what I had done wrong and what I needed to do to make this work. I still make mistakes here and there but I'm doing MUCH better this time.

So I'm a little sensitive about people saying they can tweak Atkins to suit how they want to it. I believe you can.... within the rules. Obviously, some people can do their own version of low carb/close to Atkins and still lose weight. But someone like me, with health conditions that make weight loss slow, doing Atkins strictly as designed (and when you understand the logic and science about why Dr. Atkins designed it this way, it makes sense) is very key to being successful. Doing it right helped me with the hunger, knowing what I could and could not eat, and developing a routine that has kept me on track for the very long haul that I have to take to lose so much weight.

This is why I think the stern advice and sometimes tough love is needed here. I was distracted by some of the posts I've seen here and elsewhere that seemed to make it okay to have little cheats, or even legal treats such as fake sweets. I'm sure others are the same and this is why some of those here are quick to correct or constructively criticize.

Are some people turned off by the tough love? No doubt. But look at the failure rate of those who try Atkins and then also give it a bad name. People want a quick fix to weight loss and that just doesn't happen. It's a harsh reality.

You have to remember that posts here are read by many and for consistency, we need to follow one way of doing Atkins, that's why 2002 DANDR. I would rather posts give the right view of Atkins done right and consistently, backed up by successful people who have made it work. Maybe then readers will be more inclined to think twice about how they are doing Atkins instead of making the mistakes I did. If people would rather do a different version of Atkins that 2002 DANDR or "their own way", there are other forums for that.

Could some be a little less harsh when they post? Probably, but I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt on the Internet and believe they mean the best and are just trying to help.

Sorry this is a bit long, but after having to re-lose 80+ lbs again and losing years where I could have been almost to my goal weight, this is rather personal and important to me.

[JaxMama]

Re: Not following Atkins?

I think a removed gall bladder could be an issue on Atkins? Am I wrong? How do I start a thread about it (not in the main forum)? I only ask because my mom's is removed and I want to try to convince her to do my diet. But then again I think about what she ate previously and she probably consumed just as much fat on a high carb diet then on Atkins, or a version I pick out for her.

[forbey]

Re: Not following Atkins?

Earlier today I read the post by Diver Down Can you help explain my rapid weight loss?

It seemed to me he was attacked by a few and accused of not doing Atkins. He was only looking for an answer. I have not found a recent post by him. It upset Chicklady and she stopped posting. I hope you stay forbey. You seem very nice.

Thanks bgodden, One of my my more endearing attributes (besides my overpowering modesty ) is my tremendously thick skin. I can take a beating and keep on bleating!

Hopefully, both have remained members of the forum and have just taken to reading instead of just quiting. While I may not be able to answer every question, I can find appropriate answers. Anyone feeling they might be abused for asking a specific question can send me a private message. If I can't answer the question myself, I'll find someone who can.

Side note: where are you from? My wife is from the US Midwest and has Goddens in her genealogy.

forbey

[bgodden]

Re: Not following Atkins?

Earlier today I read the post by Diver Down Can you help explain my rapid weight loss?

It seemed to me he was attacked by a few and accused of not doing Atkins. He was only looking for an answer. I have not found a recent post by him. It upset Chicklady and she stopped posting. I hope you stay forbey. You seem very nice.

[forbey]

Re: Not following Atkins?

Atkins is very phase specific. What is true with Induction, may or may not be true for OWL , Pre-Maintenance, or Maintenance. The Induction rules are quite specific about not eating anything that is not on that Induction Acceptable Foods List. So in light of that, cheat meals are not allowed during Induction.

I have myself labelled as extended Induction, I'm quite comfortable with the WOE I've established and I'm not interested in moving to OWL at this time. Since I've been on Induction/Extended Induction since February, with my labs improving and most other indicators also improving, I'm working on modifying my plan to maximise the benefits for me. That being said, since I haven't treated myself to a cheat/treat since late February, I refuse to feel guilty about straying Saturday.

I was at one point in my not to distant life under the category of "living to eat". As I progress through the process of straightening out my health as best I can, based on the damage I've done to date, I am working to join the category of "eating to live."

Living to eat is being driven by not only the love of food, but the desire to not feel hungry... because I'm stuffed. I went through a couple of decades like that.

Eating to live is driven by providing the nutrients necessary to enjoy life as long and as well as possible.

Currently, with the exception of the occassional steak, my meal plan is fairly uninteresting, but packed with nutrients. Not necessarily boring, just planned so that I am not anxiously waiting for the next time to eat being the highlight of my day, but more an occassional interruption that takes away from the time doing other stuff.

We got home last night, about a half hour later, my wife says, "so, what do you want for dinner?" we both under the understanding that we needed to eat, but not driven by it.

She put on some chicken thighs, we were busy with other stuff. Sat down long enough to eat and them back on to other things.

For some that wouldn't work, for us it has made meals a necessary intrusion, but an intrusion just the same. Most of the food is simply cooked with little or no major preparation.

Today, lunch was 2 HB eggs, 4 oz grilled pork loin, 8 olives and a chunks of cheese (about an ounce.) No condiments, no mixing, little prep work, zero display. Ate it out of ziploc bags, didn't even heat it.

forbey

[not2late]

Re: Not following Atkins?

Not2late, I disagree, in part with your statement.

Actually, Doing Atkins is following a specific low carb approach, with the understanding that if you go off track, you can always get back on track. So a cheat meal, whether OOPSed, or planned is acceptable for two reasons. First, you are only responsible to yourself for the results.
Second, while I would never recommend anyone have a cheat meal a week. An occassional chance at visiting the "normal" world is up to the individual.

Since I prefer to use myself as examples instead of picking on others:

An example is this coming Saturday. Every year, for 10 years now, my wife and I run the Scottish/Irish clan area of our annual Celtic Festival. Our menu for the area will include hamburgers, chips, fruit and cookies for the members of the clans, while we plan to bring eggs, egg and/or chicken salad and stick to grilled burgers without the buns, plus Atkins approved snacks.

There will also be the Scottish Meat Pie vendor. And, I will enjoy a Scottish Meat Pie. Does it include a risk that my blood sugars will spike? Yes. Will it send me into an uncontrollable pie crust eating frenzy? No. If I eat it around the noon hour and include plenty of activity in the running and tearing down of our area, might I be able to reduce the effect of the meat pie on my Atkins plan? Yes. Will I be able to pick up the plan where I left off as I lick the last of the pie crust off of my fingers? Yes. Am I still following Atkins, I say yes, anyone who says no isn't me and won't be taken into consideration as I choose to be "Carbohydrate Wicked!"

I know of at least one member who has been on Atkins for many years, has their own website supporting the Atkins plan and states that as a matter of, I don't know, reward or just because, has specific holidays or occassions, like their birthday, where the plan takes a vacation. It is controlled, it does not effect their end results, it has not resulted in wild binges that throw them off track. The rest of the year they are the model of Atkins propriety.

Any claim that they aren't doing Atkins would be obsured.

I seldom hit 20 carbs a day. When I do eat vegetables, especially at the wrong time of the day, they jack up my blood sugars. So, while I stay within the maximum of 20 carbs per day, I adjust the vegetable intake for my metabolism. That is defined in DANDR'02 as acceptible. DANDR'02 also includes the possibility that some on Induction might be required to increase their carbs over 20, if they need to do so, and do so responsibly, they are still following Atkins.

The last time I checked, the Atkins Rules for Induction were written on paper, not inscribed on stone tablets by the finger of God. They are guidelines, not commandments. Where flexibility is required, flexibility is allowed. The goal is good health for those unable to find it with conventional methods, the creation of the carbohydrate police.

forbey

Atkins is very phase specific. What is true with Induction, may or may not be true for OWL , Pre-Maintenance, or Maintenance. The Induction rules are quite specific about not eating anything that is not on that Induction Acceptable Foods List. So in light of that, cheat meals are not allowed during Induction. But even later on in the book, Dr. Atkins warns against going off plan and using Induction as a fix because it sets up a yo-yo dieting habit, which he says can mess up your metabolism. In the other phases because your menues are based on your tolerance of foods and your CCLL or CCML, there really is no cheat meal because the food choices open up to a point that, generally, no meal is a cheat----unless you are planning to have 2 cups of sugar in molasses sauce with a sprinkling of maple syrup and garnish of honey.

This is why I really think we should get back into the habit of posting our specific concerns in the specific forums---because the advise/info will be tailored to your situation, not some generalized bit of this or that. And you won't have to worry about the "carb police" posting a 2 page essay that potatoes aren't an allowed food because you posted your potato question on the general forum without any clear identification that you are on Pre-Maintenance.

I do understand that people don't want to post in the specific forums because they don't appear to be inhabited so they post here. But if they are used more, then they will get more traffic. And maybe if we get out more into those specific forums, we'll develop a better understanding of what this diet entails.

[liv]

Re: Not following Atkins?

I don't remember that section on high carb food from DANDR what chapter is it in?

[2big4mysize]

Re: Not following Atkins?

actually Dr Atkins discusses that "planned cheating" in DANDR 2002. There are several legal ways to do it discussed in the premaintenance section .
Once can carb average for the weekgoing up a few days and down a few days.
One can bank carbs and eat most days at induction levesl and then 2-3 times a week splurge with 20 gram indulgence several times a week.
But both come with warnings for those who experience any cravings as a result of eating that way to not do it.

Then there is the section on dealing with cravings and something he calls it taking a break from your atkins and do a high carb eating plan for a few days to get it out of your system before resuming your Atkins. that also comes with a warning about losing help benefits gained from eating atkins and difficulty restarting for us carboholics.

[forbey]

Re: Not following Atkins?

In regards to what is "doing Atkins", Atkins is a specific low carb diet with specific rules. So eating a cheat meal once a day or once a month is not Atkins, because cheat meals are not a part of the Atkins Diet. Eating 20 net carbs daily but only 2 of those carbs are coming from veg, is not Atkins Induction: because Atkins Induction Rules clearly state that most of your carbs are to come from veggies and 2 is not "most" of 20.

Not2late, I disagree, in part with your statement.

Actually, Doing Atkins is following a specific low carb approach, with the understanding that if you go off track, you can always get back on track. So a cheat meal, whether OOPSed, or planned is acceptable for two reasons. First, you are only responsible to yourself for the results.
Second, while I would never recommend anyone have a cheat meal a week. An occassional chance at visiting the "normal" world is up to the individual.

Since I prefer to use myself as examples instead of picking on others:

An example is this coming Saturday. Every year, for 10 years now, my wife and I run the Scottish/Irish clan area of our annual Celtic Festival. Our menu for the area will include hamburgers, chips, fruit and cookies for the members of the clans, while we plan to bring eggs, egg and/or chicken salad and stick to grilled burgers without the buns, plus Atkins approved snacks.

There will also be the Scottish Meat Pie vendor. And, I will enjoy a Scottish Meat Pie. Does it include a risk that my blood sugars will spike? Yes. Will it send me into an uncontrollable pie crust eating frenzy? No. If I eat it around the noon hour and include plenty of activity in the running and tearing down of our area, might I be able to reduce the effect of the meat pie on my Atkins plan? Yes. Will I be able to pick up the plan where I left off as I lick the last of the pie crust off of my fingers? Yes. Am I still following Atkins, I say yes, anyone who says no isn't me and won't be taken into consideration as I choose to be "Carbohydrate Wicked!"

I know of at least one member who has been on Atkins for many years, has their own website supporting the Atkins plan and states that as a matter of, I don't know, reward or just because, has specific holidays or occassions, like their birthday, where the plan takes a vacation. It is controlled, it does not effect their end results, it has not resulted in wild binges that throw them off track. The rest of the year they are the model of Atkins propriety.

Any claim that they aren't doing Atkins would be obsured.

I seldom hit 20 carbs a day. When I do eat vegetables, especially at the wrong time of the day, they jack up my blood sugars. So, while I stay within the maximum of 20 carbs per day, I adjust the vegetable intake for my metabolism. That is defined in DANDR'02 as acceptible. DANDR'02 also includes the possibility that some on Induction might be required to increase their carbs over 20, if they need to do so, and do so responsibly, they are still following Atkins.

The last time I checked, the Atkins Rules for Induction were written on paper, not inscribed on stone tablets by the finger of God. They are guidelines, not commandments. Where flexibility is required, flexibility is allowed. The goal is good health for those unable to find it with conventional methods, the creation of the carbohydrate police.

forbey

[2big4mysize]

Re: Not following Atkins?

Congrats on getting your blood sugars normalized.

the only we have to eat veggies hard and fast rule is the majority of our induction carbs have to come from the legal 3 cups limited veggies so if one wants to eat eggs cheese, cream, spices and herbs, and salad dressing as part of their atkins induction then some veggies have to be consumed.

One thing some folk misunderstood about induction is the USDA serving size for most veggies is 1/2 cup so inductees who eat all 3 cups are having 4-6 "servings" of veggies a day. Some times folk think in terms of "servings" instead of the cups.

[not2late]

Re: Not following Atkins?

I think ADBB's running into the same problem it did before Tom put in the Phase Specific Forums. I think it would avoid confusion if the people on OWL, Pre-Maintenance, Maintenance, and Induction were to post their menues and questions about their Phases in those forums, so they can get Phase- specific answers/advice.

For example, if someone posted that they eat 50 net carbs of food daily and they want to know why they haven't lost weight, the answer they would get in the Induction Forum would be different than the answer they would get in the OWL/Pre-Maintenance Forum and/or the Maintenance Forum.

In regards to what is "doing Atkins", Atkins is a specific low carb diet with specific rules. So eating a cheat meal once a day or once a month is not Atkins, because cheat meals are not a part of the Atkins Diet. Eating 20 net carbs daily but only 2 of those carbs are coming from veg, is not Atkins Induction: because Atkins Induction Rules clearly state that most of your carbs are to come from veggies and 2 is not "most" of 20.

One of the greatest misconceptions about Atkins is that the entire diet is the Induction Phase. So you'll hear it---quite often from people who should know better---that Atkins is hard to stick to because you can't ever eat more than 20 net carbs daily, that you will never be able to eat fruit and grains, that you have to eat alot of protein, etc.

When I moved to OWL, I went to a family meal and had a few strawberries and a relative whispered "I knew she wouldn't stick to Atkins." So according to this relative-by-marriage, I was not doing Atkins because I was eating strawberries. And I think that misconception is a real tragedy for the Diet as a whole because the myth of Induction being the entire Atkins Diet just perpetuates.

[Browneyedmelly]

Re: Not following Atkins?

Jaxmama, the point I was trying to make was that, sometimes it hinders me in my fat consumption, so my ears are all open to other's suggestion..that, that was one of my issues...Thank the stars for people like Bizzle.. who helped more than she will ever know with my thyroid issues.....that was all I ment....Thanks forbey, I am hoping for better blood work the next time, as some of it even being on this wol, wasn't great.....I wish you well on your sugar issues as well..

[forbey]

Re: Not following Atkins?

browneyed, is there a forum on here for people that have had their gallbladders taken out? Just wondering....
forbey, thank you for letting me but in and ask...

Just checked the "Atkins for Health" section of the Forum Index, didn't see one. You might suggest to the powers that be, to create one, I'm sure with the number of members in this forum there has to be more than just 2.

Me, my gallbladder is all present and accounted for. Some might say it is working way to well!

forbey

[forbey]

Re: Not following Atkins?

...I do not think anyone shouldn't mention, how they had to tweak something to make it work for them, what if I am having the same problem...

Browneyedmelly, I absolutely agress, sharing is the key! I've picked up several ideas from the forum that have helped me adjust what I was eating and to discover that some of what I thought was ok, actually was not. And, my intent with this thread is not to stop anyone from giving advice, just not taking that advice further than anyone here is qualified to do.

Good luck with the sugars, I finally got mine below 200 the last part of April. That was after 20 years of bad sugar management. It took me from January to do it... a little at a time. Now the goal is to keep them below 150. So far for May I'm sitting with approximately 75% of my readings below 150 and none above 200. A few more tweaks and I hope to have them dialed in.

The journey down the road to good health is difficult alone and made much easier with the assistance of others on the same journey. Every now and then we all need a swift kick in the britches, and that is fine.
But, the road gets more difficult, if all you hear is "yer on the wrong road", or "yer doin it wrong", or "you shoulda caught the other bus"!

forbey

[JaxMama]

Re: Not following Atkins?

browneyed, is there a forum on here for people that have had their gallbladders taken out? Just wondering....
forbey, thank you for letting me but in and ask...