What do we think about a Draft?

[swag]

Perversely, I don't think the politicians suggesting a draft (primarily from the left) really want one, or really believe that a conscripted army will be a better fighting force than a volunteer one.

The point they are trying to make, I believe, is that our nation is making great sacrifices, while most individuals are not.

The Iraq war has cost a couple of hundred billion so far, and the costs show no signs of slowing, but the powers that be show no interest in raising taxes to pay for it. Instead, taxes are being cut, the deficit and debt are soaring, but the immediate effect of that on out individual pocketbooks is minimal. We're slowly bankrupting out kids and grandkids, but it's easy not to notice that.

Meanwhile, 1700 are dead and thousands more are wounded. But the media is not allowed to show the flag draped coffins coming home, and unless you happen to know one of those poor young soldiers, it's just another stat in the paper. Personally, I live here in a red state between the coasts, and yet, I don't know anyone over there. I don't even know anyone with a relative over there. And I'm sure there are lots of supporters of this war in the same boat as me.

But now just suppose there's a draft. Suddenly, the ones sacrificing aren't just the impoverished inner city and rust belt youth. Now the sacrifice is spread evenly across our society (at least in theory). And what the anti-war, pro-draft politicians hope is that the fear of that will make folks realize what true sacrifice is, and will begin to change some minds anong the supporters.

[leslie0021]

Thanks for the nice comments about my kids. They are exceptional and look for opportunties to make a difference. I thank God every day for them.

Love the comment about people with green cards being subject to the draft. :yes

[apollo]

Re: What do we think about a Draft?

no , no , no , NO , NO , NO , NO , NO

they got rid of them for a REASON , and , not to sound anti-american , BUT , in a land of FREEDOM , and RIGHTS , who the **** , would give these most likely UNPOPULAR and in some cases , NOT EVEN THE RIGHTFUL holder of a position , the right to send people to die for a cause they might not even believe in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

those that wish to participate in the armed forces , are either enlisted in full time service , part of the reserves , or can go to ANY recruiting office , leave the rest of us alone , and just as importantly , leave our family members , friends , and fellow citizens alone that dont wish to fight in these vendettas , oops , i mean "Wars for freedom"

[apollo]

Re: What do we think about a Draft?

i might add , my father fought in vietnam , and no , he was NOT drafted , he enlisted to escape his neighborhood which was even more unsafe than a warzone

i will also add , that my previous post was not meant to upset anyone , but my feelings are pretty strong on this war in iraq , and this country in general , i love this country , i dislike many of its leaders , and words can not describe how sorry i feel for even a soldier who WANTS to lay his life on the line for these causes , its a shame that there cant be peace in this world , its even greater a shame how we are a civilization destined to destroy each other (grim , arent i) , a friend of mine who is in the reserves was just given notice he is going to iraq for 8 months after spending 2 months in north carolina , his family is devastated ...... when is this war truly going to end , i thought it was declared over??

[mrslee44]

Re: What do we think about a Draft?

Apollo I didn't think you post was offensive, but I would like to comment on your previous post of



those that wish to participate in the armed forces , are either enlisted in full time service , part of the reserves , or can go to ANY recruiting office , leave the rest of us alone , and just as importantly , leave our family members , friends , and fellow citizens alone that dont wish to fight in these vendettas.

Yes thats a good and true statement and I agree. But then you have the those who did just that, wanting to take advantage of the benefits and are now crying about having to go to war and be in Iraq. Tough luck to those people and they need to put a cork in it.

So when the full impact of "If I sign up, I could go to war" really hits home, there could be a shortage of men and women enlisting, which would most definitely bring back the draft.

My sons are 15 and I'm holding my breath and hoping it doesn't happen. But if it does, as I said in my earlier post, they will have to comply. I don't like it, but tough luck to me and mine.

JMHO

Robin

[apollo]

Re: What do we think about a Draft?

yes , i am going to post a 3rd time in this thread , i just read some peoples comments about todays youth .. when i was a teenager , i counseled some of those people with the "Gang mentality" someone mentioned , and to the person that stated to "pull up your pants" that is a fashion statement , one this country of ours ALLOWS us to make , read up on the bill of rights , freedom of expression is a GIVEN , you are also entitled to your opinion , but try to keep up with the times will ya? back to my youth , i saved the lives of many people (no im not asking for congratulations or pats on the back), how did i do this? , i spent many hours simply speaking to them , i helped detox several of my friends who were doing heavy drugs , i got many people to leave the gangs they were claiming , some had to even leave the state to escape what they got themselves into , i grew up in a rough environment , some might speculate its even as bad as iraq , as tupac shakur once said "theres war in the streets and a war in the middle east" , i wouldnt have "Fights" as one person said if i returned to high school , id be trying to help those around me cope with what has turned out to be a very harsh and violent world , selfish? , yes , many people are selfish , i too can be selfish , that is human nature , i find it selfish that some people in this thread took to calling other members names , that isnt productive , that is insulting , im sure illl catch heat for my "unamerican" views , but i welcome it , say whats on your mind , its what makes america so great , i just wish , as i said before , that so many lives didnt have to be lost , and so many injured , just for what i STILL see as a vendetta , not a war to liberate a group of people who might not have wanted to be "liberated" in the first place , and oh yeh , how about the wmd , wasnt that the initial reason to go to war? , certainly bush wasnt blaming someone besides bin laden (who still roams freely) for that tragic incident?

toss the flames at me , or agree with me , but please , dont call me names , make accusations or judgements , and even if you disagree , at least respect my point of view and my right to have it and state it freely

[apollo]

Re: What do we think about a Draft?

mrslee , actually , i had to talk ALOT of people out of signing up for the armed forces just for the monetaty income , housing , or steady employment , i also half-agree that they have -no- right to cry , everyone has right to cry , (dont they?) , i do agree that they now must pay the piper and go to war , its what they signed up for , i just , still , feel bad for each and every man and woman who has to go fight in this war , or any war for that matter

those statistics on how many people have been injured and killed grow higher and more disturbing everyday , and lets keep in mind our "Fearless" leader who has NO children in the armed forces has given us NO date when we will be able to pull out of iraq and let those people govern themselves

[mrslee44]

Re: What do we think about a Draft?

Apollo I agree with you about war, but as I said in another thread on a different day, we are a nation of people who shun war, but are willing to fight and kill each other over imagined or real disrepectful comments. Personally I don't think a disrepectful comment is worth dying over, but I certainly think the freedom of living in this country is.

JMHO
Robin

[Kelani]

Re: What do we think about a Draft?

I do not want any reinstatements of any drafts. Our military should remain as it is now...on a volunteer basis only. Imposing a draft would disrupt the flow of the average american citizen as well as put fear and panick in the hearts of every eligible draftee (this includes us women). If our government needs more soldiers, than they should consider imposing a bill where every eligible individual (non handicapped or disabled) will serve x amount of years of duty for their country...similar to how it is done in other countries.

[Kelani]

Re: What do we think about a Draft?

Let me clearify...serve x amount of required years of duty for their country. This way, we would all as american citizens know that this is something we have to do with no negotiations. Truthfully, I'm not for this either. But it is better than a mother randomly receiving a phone call saying ' it's time to enlist your recently turned 18 year old '

[apollo]

Re: What do we think about a Draft?

i wouldnt like the mandatory service any more than the draft idea

this is a country where military service is supposed to be a choice

[Kisseslikepearls]

Re: What do we think about a Draft?

I wanted to post my 2 cents even though I think I'm really too young to have an opinion--you have to have knowledge and experience to have an opinion or at least one that doesn't sound like you just pulled it out of a hat right after the rabbit.


I don't like the idea of a draft, and I doubt anyone does like the idea. If there is a draft, people will be killed. As it is, without the draft, men my father's age have been to the Middle East, "men" my age are there now, and the way this "war" is going, my sons will be there as well.

If I thought a draft would prevent this, I would be 100% for it. The only other situation I'd consider a draft feasible is that our country's boarders are being threatened because our military is stretched so thin.

While I use to subscribe to the idea that if there's a draft, men won't be as careful as they would if they "wanted" (i don't think anyone truely wants to kill) to be there, I don't anymore, or at least not fully. My grandfather faught in WWII in Italy and refused to say a word about it to anyone. He's about 75 years old now and suffers from dementia, which is related to paranoia, and he has opened up some about his experences, esp when I was dating a Marine. From what he's told me, which I'm sure isn't 1/10th the horrors he's seen, I don't believe that anyone, even if they didn't choose to be in that situation, would not be just as careful as anyone else. If you spend weeks/months in training and days/weeks/months in trenches or holes in the sand or in tents, some sort of comradery would be established.

I'm not worried about the draft itself. I'm worryed about the drop in moral that it would cause. I did not live through it, nor was I even thought of when it happened, I still picture a repeat of what I've been taught in history about Vietnam.

To be perfectly honest, however, the thing that worries me more than the draft (and please don't stone me) is women in the military.

To clarify, what I mean by that as in women on the front lines. A dear friend of mine related what happened to him recently. He is the driver of an enormous truck and was in a convoy. There was no fire or combat of any kind expected. A woman, who's technical job was a journalist for his branch of the military, yet still trained in weapons etc, sat in the front seat, with a gun across her lap. While driving, the convoy came under fire and the woman DROPPED HER GUN, TUCKED HER HEAD BETWEEN HER KNEES AND BEGAN WRITING. This woman, while scared to fire, or just feeling her story was her main objective, put everyone on that truck at risk. That was one more angle that cover fire was not laid down, or that was a perfect opening for a bullet.

I am by no means suggesting that this is typical or even an occasional occurance. To me, however, its another peice of stone in the wall of my opinion. My main issue is more centered around facts. Women cannot go weeks without a bath. Another good friend of mine spent significantly long time with water rationed at 2 qts per person per day. Period. Our body just will not function healthily under such conditions for extended periods. Its just too easy for us to get infections.

Niether are women as strong as men. This is another fact. Granted, there's many that I wouldn't argue that they are equal, if not better than men. However, women are not held to the same degree as men in training. I'm not positive if this is in general, but I do know for a fact in Boot Camp, they are not held to the same physical standards. My high school is known for its number of military recruitments and for a time, I considered going in the reserves. I hate running with a passion and when I cited this (lack of motivation) as a reason, among many, that I didn't need to be there, I was told "its ok, its not as rough as you've been told. Girls have more time/shorter runs"

Its very selfish of me, I understand that, but I want a body to bury, not an empty coffin. If a woman is held to only 3 pushups while men are held at 10 (I'm not sure what the actual standards are)....they are not given equal footing. I know that then men who are doing the higher requirements will be able to pull thier own weight, as well as thier wounded comrade's. If the women are held to a lower standard, will they still be able to carry thier wieght and a good 200 pounds? Probably not, probably through no fault of thier own, unless they truely cannot do more than the number of whatevers that is required of them


Please understand that I'm not saying women can't be as giood as men. Its another proven fact they they are typically better under pressure, better at multi-tasking, better at organizing, and so forth. I know they can be just as good as men,physically, but they do not need to be on the front lines unless they are held to equal standards. IF, by some weird twist of fate, a draft suddenly becomes feasible, I should have the same right to fight for my country as men do.

[Democat]

Re: What do we think about a Draft?

But rehashing liberal meme's is any better? :sarcasm

That is not a liberal meme. Saddam Hussein had NOTHING to do with 9/11. That is a fact, though Fox News keeps repeating that meme ad nauseum.

This administration has wasted young lives, our tax money, and our credibility as a nation fighting a war that has nothing to do with the War on Terror. If the Bush administration was really fighting terror, there would be more troops in Afghanistan.

I have two nephews in Iraq. Anyone who supports the war and is under 40 should enlist, so they can come home.

Cat

[Piasabird]

Re: What do we think about a Draft?

I'm sorry. Could you type a little larger? I didn't quite get that!

[wannabethintoo]

Re: What do we think about a Draft?

Politics? We're discussing politics? Here? Are you kidding me?

I have nothing to say about anything....no, you can't make me.