the skeptics yeast thread...for skeptics by skeptics

[Heidi3]

Tension here who feels tension I thought this thread was going quite well if you can not stand the heat get out of the pan!!!.....

[Pebbbles]

Oh here is a question to those in the "know" ....yeast is very easily killed in an acidic environment..it likes a sweet spot....pH matters to yeast....that is why we get itchy if we sit in a swim suit...yeast thrives in a sweet warm moist environment......if so...how does it make it through your stomach acid into your system?????

Great point Nurselady. I wish I were as well versed as I would like to be on scientific theory. Fortunately, I have many friends :nod .

I will hopefully come back with some further data, just to stir things up so to speak, or (no pun inteanded), to get a rise.


ya know, yeast.....rise...he he.

[Heidi3]

Oh here is a question to those in the "know" ....yeast is very easily killed in an acidic environment..it likes a sweet spot....pH matters to yeast....that is why we get itchy if we sit in a swim suit...yeast thrives in a sweet warm moist environment......if so...how does it make it through your stomach acid into your system?????

Great point Nurselady. I wish I were as well versed as I would like to be on scientific theory. Fortunately, I have many friends :nod .

I will hopefully come back with some further data, just to stir things up so to speak, or (no pun inteanded), to get a rise.


ya know, yeast.....rise...he he.

yeast rising that his hysterical!!!! LOLOLOL.....getting a rise out of candida!!!....ok here is a bad funny story.... warning if you do not have a level of humor do not read this
I had a visit from a patient years ago she was wondering if an oatmeal douche would help her vaginal yeast infection.(I have heard of and have recommended yogurt douche as the probiotics in the yogurt are applied topically and it is cheap there fore not a risk for someone to try)..I told her "I have never heard of an oatmeal douche but if you did a yogurt and oatmeal with the yeast you could make a nice loaf of bread!".....gross I know....she was hysterical laughing we could not walk out of the room....

disclaimer: This story was retold with the permission of this person!....she was at her wits end and thanked me for the relief the laughter brought...I told her I would re tell it and she said "PLEASE DO!"...a lady with a good sense of humor I must say!

[MotherOfGizmo]

I'm thinking that for the folks that believe their special diet is working, because they start losing weight again..Isn't one of the things you have to give up cheese/dairy? Well giving those things up in and of itself causes alot of people to break a stall! Maybe that's all it is but we're reading alot more into it? Just an idea.

[not2late]

"But I also think if folks who go on these anti-yeast diets find relief of their symptoms with it, it can't be ignored due to lack of multi-center double-blind randomized placebo-controlled clinical studies."u

Nope do not ignore it ...just do not tell me it is yeast with out proving it...any ristrictive diet can make people feel better especially if the diet was not all that healthy to begin with !!!....if you look at the diet before you might just be surprised if the person is honest what they have consumed prior to starting the yeast free diet!!!....it is more like they are paying closer attention to what they are eating and avoiding things that may not be good for them ...not so much the yeast...sorry....gotta have th double blind random and some physiological testing for that!!!

My point is you don't know if you are creating a gut environment that is more friendly to the normal gut bacteria. Normal gut flora serves important bodily functions like synthesizing vitamins and enzymes. So by creating this friendier neighborhood, it can possibly give the person that extra "boost" to make their systems more efficient.

Oh here is a question to those in the "know" ....yeast is very easily killed in an acidic environment..it likes a sweet spot....pH matters to yeast....that is why we get itchy if we sit in a swim suit...yeast thrives in a sweet warm moist environment......if so...how does it make it through your stomach acid into your system?????

Well there's two openings to the digestive tract: the mouth and the anus. Perianal candidiasis has been described.

http://www.merck.com/mrkshared/mmanual/section10/chapter113/113b.jsp

And so has rectal candidiasis

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=2626187&dopt=Abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=7867247&dopt=Abstract

http://www.aafp.org/afp/20010215/697.html

Three primary theories have been proposed to explain why some women develop RVVC. The intestinal reservoir theory suggests that the recurrences are a result of persistence of the organism in the gastrointestinal tract and later reinfection of the vagina. This theory is based on uncontrolled data8 from the late 1970s in which a concordance of almost 100 percent was observed between rectal and vaginal cultures in women with RVVC. However, subsequent studies9 suggest that women with RVVC harbor yeast species in the gastrointestinal tract as often as control subjects. Furthermore, in women who experienced a recurrence after taking prolonged courses of systemic ketoconazole for RVVC and who experienced a recurrence following cessation of therapy, the recurrence often occurred in the presence of negative rectal cultures for yeast.10 The results from these two studies make it less likely that the intestinal reservoir theory satisfactorily explains the cause of RVVC.

Also the pH of the intestines more neutral than the stomach

http://gut.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/48/4/571

Gastrointestinal luminal pH data recorded by RTC in normal volunteers are shown in table 1. Luminal pH in the proximal small bowel ranges from 5.5 to 7.0 and gradually rises to 6.5-7.5 in the distal ileum. In almost every recording published there has been a fall in luminal pH from the terminal ileum to the caecum (range 5.5-7.5); pH then rises in the left colon and rectum to 6.1-7.5.

The above article is actually interesting and probably pertinent to this discussion because it discusses gut pH and its probable relationship to certain diseases. Here's an interesting thing about non-absorbable sugars and fiber's effects on gut pH.

The almost neutral small bowel contents then empty into the caecum where the luminal pH (6.4) is relatively acidic.4 This fall in luminal pH is in part attributable to the action of colonic bacteria which ferment carbohydrates entering the caecum from the ileum generating the short chain fatty acids (SCFA) acetic, propionic, and butyric acid, and hydrogen ions.17 The SCFAs are weak acids, pKa 4.8, and are present as organic anions in the normal colonic lumen. The faecal concentration of these organic anions is negatively correlated with faecal pH.18 SCFAs, especially butyrate, are absorbed and metabolised by the colonic epithelium for which they are a principal energy source.19 A falling intraluminal concentration of SCFAs may contribute, in common with colonic mucosal bicarbonate secretion, to a pH rise along the distal colon. A slight drop in pH may occur in the rectum due to faecal stasis and the subsequent action of colonic bacteria fermenting any remaining carbohydrates.17

Ammonia is formed in the colonic lumen from the bacterial metabolism of proteins, amino acids, and particularly urea. While, theoretically, a high protein diet20 may therefore raise colonic pH, the influence of ammonia on colonic pH is thought to be smaller than that of bicarbonate and organic acids.21

Dietary intake can influence intracolonic pH through its effects on SCFA production. Thus increased dietary fibre,22 as well as non-absorbable sugars such as lactulose,3 increase caecal acidity by providing a carbohydrate meal to colonic flora.23

The effects of lactulose on gut pH may also be modified by its effects on intestinal transit. However, the effects of changes in colonic transit time on intraluminal pH are difficult to predict. Theoretically, a shortened transit time could either increase pH by reducing the time available for bacterial fermentation of carbohydrates to SCFAs or decrease it by causing carbohydrate starved bacteria to produce more lactate.17 In fact, a mixture of magnesium sulphate and carbonate given to healthy volunteers in sufficient doses to increase stool weight threefold produced no change in pH in the colon itself, and a small rise in the rectum.3 Conversely, in a study of gall stone patients with slow transit constipation, there was a higher proximal colonic pH (6. than in controls (pH 6.4).24

So it goes back to what I wrote above--this specialized diet might make the gut friendlier.

But again, I think this does warrant studies---unfortunately it won't happen until more researchers believe this is has enough merit to study.

[Becky Sue]

All I have to say to Nurselady and Pebbbles. Is this! I hope you are really enjoying yourselves. Making fun, while others are suffering!!

Real big of you!

Becky Sue :no

[Pebbbles]

All I have to say to Nurselady and Pebbbles. Is this! I hope you are really enjoying yourselves. Making fun, while others are suffering!!

Real big of you!

Becky Sue :no

Becky Sue,
In no way would I ever make fun of anyone who is suffering. It is not in my nature, and I believe my profession speaks for what I believe in. I have dedicated my life to try to ease people's emotional pain. I cannot speak for Nurselady, but I believe that adults can have differing opinions, voice them with thoughts, observations and solid FACTS, and allow others to make their own decisions. Disagreement is not necessarily a negative thing. Sometimes I think people become so defensive here that they do not step back and try to understand other theories. Please do not be offended just because I do not agree with the candida/yeast theory. I come from a background where I must be presented with solid, scientific proof (including blind and double blind testing) in regards to medical issues. I have not found any scientific evidence to back up the candida/yeast theory regarding weight loss. I do not believe that statement is offensive. It is just an opinion that differs from yours.

[Anonymous]

Legal

I can tell you that well known nursing home in my town was shut down and distroyed because of the mold in the walls it would give off spors and get in the lungs of the residents and make them got ill or in this case killed 3 of the residents. I cannot give you to much more info for it is in court right now.

[Dieselbud]

Oh here is a question to those in the "know" ....yeast is very easily killed in an acidic environment..it likes a sweet spot....pH matters to yeast....that is why we get itchy if we sit in a swim suit...yeast thrives in a sweet warm moist environment......if so...how does it make it through your stomach acid into your system?????

Leaky Gut SYndrome

(excerpt) How Does The Gut Become Leaky?

Once the gut lining becomes inflamed or damaged, this disrupts the functioning of the system. The spaces open up and allow large food antigens, for example, to be absorbed into the body. Normally the body sees only tiny food antigens. When it sees thes e new, larger ones, they are foreign to the body's defence system. So the attack results in the production of antibodies against once harmless, innocuous foo...




OK, here's MY deal.

I lost a GRAND TOTAL OF 5LBs IN 2 MONTHS (Sept-Nov) :anger


Since I started CAD........ (Nov 22) I have accomplished:

4lbs of weightloss in 16 days
A brief return of my symptoms (rash, white tongue) and then they disappeared
Lost 1.5 inches ON MY WAIST
PLus, I also had my period last week and was STILL LOSING!

Regardless of what it is....... what caused it/fixed it, what I am doing is working amazingly for me. Be a skeptic if you want. people are allowed their opinions.... but I ain't going to shoot the horse that my weight loss acceleration may have rode in on.

[2big4mysize]

y'all have been busy over night so I'll just dive in correcting the misinfo

Oh here is a question to those in the "know" ....yeast is very easily killed in an acidic environment..it likes a sweet spot....pH matters to yeast....that is why we get itchy if we sit in a swim suit...yeast thrives in a sweet warm moist environment......if so...how does it make it through your stomach acid into your system?????

Actually not all yeast is the same. If you do some research on candida you will see it is a normal component of every single human being living as part of the natural flora of our mouth, skin, intestinal tract, and vagina. Are you disputing this Nurselady? If so take some time at work to use one of those medical references in the office and look it up.

The easiest way to describe the natural flora in our intestines is like a lawn, Lactobacillus Acidophilus the good stuff is the grass and Candida Albicans is the dandilions. The grass with its physical presence keeps the weeds from growing in that space grated this example shorchanges the acid control the bacteria do in our bodies but the visual is correct). When we acidently kill off the grass the dandilions run wild and anybody who has a yard knows when those dandilions get out of control it is hard to kill them all off and get the grass to regrow on its own. We apply weed killer (antifungals) and replant grass seeds ( probiotics). We fertilize the yard with the propper foods (the anticandida diet)for the grass to grow best. with time our grass is re-established and our lawn (intestinal tract) is healthy again.

Our intestinal bacteria for all intents and purposes poop out short chain fatty acids which contribute to the pH control of the intestines. Whe we kill them off through antibiotics or any other means possible we raise the intestinal pH making the intestines a fertile breeding grounds for the candida to live and reproduce rapidly and they do.

yeast not only make the foods Megs pointed out, they produce byproducts like the bacteria do that can poison healthy cells. Everyone knows the story of how penicillain was discovered from a mold ( and yes yeast is mold). The overgrowth of the yeast in the intestinal spaces vacated by the bacteria and the sweeter living enviornment means a much greater concentration of these bad for us chemicalsbeing released into our system and the lessening of the good for us chemicals the normal bacteria produce.

Any thing that is effecting our bodies negatively will slow down our bodies ability to function. When you exercise and are feeling healthy you work harder which increases your metabolic rate and burn more cals. When you are sick with say the toxins from a cold virus you feel bad you don't work as hard your metabolism is slower and you don't burn as many calories.

So those with systemic yeast (that is what they call the larger then normal amount of yeast in the intestines) will not be feeling top notch and most likely not doing as much as they could hense their metabolic rate will be slower they will burn fewer calories and that is how it can interfer with weight loss. when they are cured of the overgrowth and the body is back in it normal balance they will be doing more and have a higher metabolic rate and will lose weight eating the exact some amount of fuel as before.

Please don't lump all those on the anticandida eating program with those suffering from systemic candida. just as the anticandida plan will improve the gut flora of everybody eating it and the side effects of the restricted eating of the program will help anybody doing it lose weight, so too would doing the Fat Fast for all Atkinsers but we don't all have metabolic resistance and need to do that restricted plan.
Those that do have metabolic resistance need to be doing the fat fast and those that do have systemic candida need the anticandida Atkins Kiss plan.

[Pebbbles]

Oh here is a question to those in the "know" ....yeast is very easily killed in an acidic environment..it likes a sweet spot....pH matters to yeast....that is why we get itchy if we sit in a swim suit...yeast thrives in a sweet warm moist environment......if so...how does it make it through your stomach acid into your system?????

Leaky Gut SYndrome

(excerpt) How Does The Gut Become Leaky?

Once the gut lining becomes inflamed or damaged, this disrupts the functioning of the system. The spaces open up and allow large food antigens, for example, to be absorbed into the body. Normally the body sees only tiny food antigens. When it sees thes e new, larger ones, they are foreign to the body's defence system. So the attack results in the production of antibodies against once harmless, innocuous foo...




OK, here's MY deal.

I lost a GRAND TOTAL OF 5LBs IN 2 MONTHS (Sept-Nov) :anger


Since I started CAD........ (Nov 22) I have accomplished:

4lbs of weightloss in 16 days
A brief return of my symptoms (rash, white tongue) and then they disappeared
Lost 1.5 inches ON MY WAIST
PLus, I also had my period last week and was STILL LOSING!


DB...I am so glad that you had a return of weight loss. I know you were getting really discouraged. I read the excerpt, it appears it comes from an Autism research study. They are claiming that yeast may have something to do w/Autism. Why, then, aren't these claims being put to a scientific test so that our children can be cured of autism, adhd, asperger's, etc? It's articles such as these that put these theories out there, with no proof of any child/adult being cured of these horrific conditions.

Regardless of what it is....... what caused it/fixed it, what I am doing is working amazingly for me. Be a skeptic if you want. people are allowed their opinions.... but I ain't going to shoot the horse that my weight loss acceleration may have rode in on.

DB...I am so glad that you had a return of weight loss. I know you were getting really discouraged. I read the excerpt, it appears it comes from an Autism research study. They are claiming that yeast may have something to do w/Autism. Why, then, aren't these claims being put to a scientific test so that our children can be cured of autism, adhd, asperger's, etc? It's articles such as these that put these theories out there, with no proof of any child/adult being cured of these horrific conditions.

[Dieselbud]

Why, then, aren't these claims being put to a scientific test so that our children can be cured of autism, adhd, asperger's, etc? It's articles such as these that put these theories out there, with no proof of any child/adult being cured of these horrific conditions.

Sounds a lot like Atkins doesn't it?? :yes Think of all the heart disease and diabetes that could be cured if everyone followed this WOL.

I only took the first website I found when I googled it. Here is a FAR better one

http://home.tampabay.rr.com/lymecfs/leakygut.htm

that even states :



Any one of the following can cause Leaky Gut Syndrome:

* Antibiotics because they lead to the overgrowth of abnormal flora in the gastrointestinal tract (bacteria, parasites, candida, fungi)
* Alcohol and caffeine (strong gut irritants)
* Foods and beverages contaminated by parasites like Giardia lamblia, cryptosporidium, blastocystis hominis and others
* Foods and beverages contaminated by bacteria like helicobacter pylori, klebsiella, citrobacter, pseudomonas and others
* Chemicals in fermented and processed food (dyes, preservatives, peroxidized fats)
* Enzyme deficiencies (e.g. celiac disease, lactase deficiency causing lactose intolerance)
* NSAIDS (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs) like ASA, ibuprofen, indomethacin, etc.
* Prescription corticosteroids (e.g. prednisone, hydrocortisone, DepoMedrol, etc.)
* High refined carbohydrate diet (e.g. candy bars, cookies, cake, soft drinks, white bread)
* Prescription hormones like the birth control pill
* Mold and fungal mycotoxins in stored grains, fruit and refined carbohydrates

[Dieselbud]

Here's another........... although I am really unclear as to what you guys are asking for.

http://www.mdheal.org/leakygut.htm

Proof???

[Pebbbles]

Here's another........... although I am really unclear as to what you guys are asking for.

http://www.mdheal.org/leakygut.htm

Proof???

I read it. If you notice, although he is an M.D., he is also trying to sell his book. Respected medical information comes from published medical journals that have no other motives but to publish scientifically sound medical research, such as The New England Journal of Medicine, JAMA, and the British Medical Journal.

[2big4mysize]

actually if you look you can find several JAMA articles about yeast

and as i said above in my post that got jumped candidas lives in the guts of every human and when the natural control of the good bacteria on the space and pH of the intestin is upset the yeast multiplies and fills that space. yeast give off chemicals just an any organism living in our bodies do. some are helpful like the friendly bacteria making Vit K and fatty acids in their poop ands some are bad . Yeasts and molds can produce depending on the variety deadly chemicals.

If it wasn't bad for us to have too much yeast in our gut why hasn't our body evolved to allow the yeast to grow unchecked in our bodies as the primary organism instead of being dandilions amoung the grass of bacteria. obviously too much yeast in our gut has to be having a bad effect on us or it would be the primary orgainsim.

Anything exerting a negative effect on our bodies in any form can cause us to respond by slowing down our activities and thus burn less fuel. less fuel burned less weight lost.
Diesel you are feeling more energized now? you working out at a slightly higher lever? That is how clearing up systemic yeast helps lose weight