the skeptics yeast thread...for skeptics by skeptics

[sharbur2002]

If you notice, although he is an M.D., he is also trying to sell his book.

Applies to Dr. Atkins New Diet Revolution, huh?

Where's the scientific blind and double blind studies on the Atkins diet?

Oh well, I don't need them! I know this WOE works for me.

Sharon

[not2late]

[
I read it. If you notice, although he is an M.D., he is also trying to sell his book. Respected medical information comes from published medical journals that have no other motives but to publish scientifically sound medical research, such as The New England Journal of Medicine, JAMA, and the British Medical Journal.

There was an article published by the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons that discussed how some of these journals are biased and how that interfers with the integrity of the "peer-reviewed" stamp of approval.

http://www.jpands.org/vol9no1/kauffman.pdf

It's not good enough anymore to say "if it's in the NEJM, it's gotta be correct". You have to read the articles and figure out the statistics yourself, because the editors are letting the ball drop.

editing to add That linked article specifically discusses the low carb studies in the 2003 NEJM.
My 2 carbs(net)

[Dieselbud]

Here's another........... although I am really unclear as to what you guys are asking for.

http://www.mdheal.org/leakygut.htm

Proof???

I read it. If you notice, although he is an M.D., he is also trying to sell his book. Respected medical information comes from published medical journals that have no other motives but to publish scientifically sound medical research, such as The New England Journal of Medicine, JAMA, and the British Medical Journal.

So was Dr Atkins, he wrote a book too.

I am done with this, it is like trying to convince an anti-low carb or weight watcher that this WOL really works.

Glad to know you are not suffering, and have no need to believe. No hard feelings :hug

[Pebbbles]

As I read through this forum, especially the one from Skinny Soon, it dawned on me why I got so fired up. I love ADBB, except for one thing. The tendency to completely ignore the medical community and blame things like IBS, Fibromyalgia, Being Fat, ADHD, Autism (the list goes on) on anything other than what the scientific community states that the causes are or may be.

When people who are not medical professionals post that syndromes, diseases and conditions do not exist, and when I see a host of others that agree with them, it disturbs me. I fear that people will come to this board and listen to non-professional advice and ignore possible problems ie; hair loss, lethargy, cravings, abnormal or cessation of menstruation. These symptoms can be signs of REAL problems (dare I say malnutrition). I was horrified to see many women posting that their hair was falling out in clumps, or that they had not had a period for over 6 weeks. This is not normal, and I am afraid that some are so desperate to lose weight that they will listen to others on the board who say it's all okay.

If a yeast free diet works for you, Amen!!! As long as you are not hurting yourself in the process for the sake of losing weight, I am glad that all of you have been able to use this as a tool for better health.

[Heidi3]

Becky Sue this is sad that you would say Pebbbles and I are making fun that is not at all true this is a quest to have some insight and perhaps you need to understand that I can laugh and learn at the same time....

You know what this is a very sensitive subject it is like the Atkins Diet!...and people do not like it obviously if you dispute what they think is right....It saddens me .....as I do not think the Atkins plan is a religion and do not mind when people argue it with me!!!....and the same with other things I believe....if I did believe that yeast was the cause of all people believe it is .... I wouldn't mind a back and forth...it is not about "convincing" like in a faith!!! it is about debating a theory....if it bugs you or you do not like the fact that some people think that Yeast is a bunch of over blown info and not the cause of all the problems in the world... than know that this thread was not for you...if you feel good because you have opted out of yeast and it is working for you ...OH MY GOSH CONGRATULATIONS!!!....it is still just a debate...I am not trying to convince YOU that it is a load of crap!...I just feel it is!!!...but that it was never my intent to halt your efforts if it is working for you!!!...Just like the Atkins diet!!!...I want to stir the pot and make people think not have it boil over......come on you guys!!!! is there nothing we can talk or argue about here??? with out it becoming so personal!!!... is it better to live in happy land where no one challenges or debates a subject?...I have had my mind changed when I thought I was totally wrong and argued myself into a corner ...maybe this would be that time!!! But so far I am still out...however thanks to you all who have made some detailed explanations I appreciate your time..and will follow up on the links.....to the others who have emotional responses I am sorry this upset you!....but there are people who will dispute and it is good to be armed with knowledge...I really believe that!!!

[SkinnySoon]

I have not been replying to this thread... or many others lately because I am trying to get caught up on things in "real" life right now. I don't have the time to sit here and go through dozens of websites to post up links to each one of them to explain my reasoning for those comments.

Being a "professional" doesn't make your knowledge on a topic any more in-depth then anyone else. All it means is that you went through the time and expense to go through schooling to get a degree to put up on your wall... and that you have a good basis for expanding your knowledge, just like everyone else. I have educated quite a few doctors on several occasions when they were too closed minded to see the truth beyond what they learned in school and in practice. (Atkins diet for example)

I am almost embarassed to say that I spent between 8-12 hours a day doing nothing but reading dozens of websites everyday on all sorts of medically related issues. I scan past all the advertising sites and focus on the ones that are not trying to sell a product, or a book, or a memberhsip. I read all sides to an arguement, and I try to determine which one makes more sense. I'd say that my education is beyond what some others have spent thousands of dollars to learn. (I am not inferring that comment towards any members here) This is something I seriously need to stop doing because important things are starting to pile up due to my procrastination and participation on this board and several others.

As I type this... my business plan is sitting next to me completely ignored. I've got to spend more time trying to put food on my table instead of helping a bunch of people who I may never even meet for free all day long every day. My life outside the internet is suffering because I have a hard time pulling myself away from multiple message boards and self-education. This is why, after being asked by more then one member of the staff here, I have declined the position as moderator... but hopefully, when I've got more time on my hands, I can continue to help out all the people around here because it's something I enjoy doing, whether it puts food on my table or not. I like helping people.


Yes Pebbles... I strongly believe that everything you listed other then Autism are directly related to diet. Whether it's intolerances, allergies, or lack of proper nutrients.... we are what we eat. I refuse to be treated for symptoms of something instead of the cause... and that's what most of the westernized medical field is all about. Drugs, treatments, doc visits... instead of personal responsibility, healthy eating, and proper exercise.

"Give me a pill... I don't want to stop eating sugar"... is what they hear, so they treat the symptoms (diabetes, candida, obesity, etc..) instead of the cause, the patient's lifestyle and dietary habits.

Signing off... and not signing back on again until I've got some work accomplished outside of the internet. (This place can be like an unlimited pile of homework sometimes).

Don't expect me to reply for atleast 2-3 days.. unless I finish other things sooner.

[Pebbbles]

Being a professional doesn't make your knowledge on a topic any more in depth than anyone else. Skinny, are you kidding? So, if I read up on the internet for a few hours on brain surgery, I can perform a lobotomy tomorrow? C'MON!!!!!!

And thus I prove my point.

If any of you are losing clumps of hair; are suddenly having irregular and/or painful periods; having unusual cravings, have low energy, I implore you to consult a professional if these symptoms do not resolve themselves in a few weeks. These symptoms are NOT normal, and I will repeat myself, can be a symptom of something that requires medical attention.

[Heidi3]

Being a professional doesn't make your knowledge on a topic any more in depth than anyone else. Skinny, are you kidding? So, if I read up on the internet for a few hours on brain surgery, I can perform a lobotomy tomorrow? C'MON!!!!!!

And thus I prove my point.

If any of you are losing clumps of hair; are suddenly having irregular and/or painful periods; having unusual cravings, have low energy, I implore you to consult a professional if these symptoms do not resolve themselves in a few weeks. These symptoms are NOT normal, and I will repeat myself, can be a symptom of something that requires medical attention.

I completely agree and I also agree to disagree...with those I do not agree with ....Skinny if you do not want to get back to this at all I am not holding you to it that is for sure...my life has many more fun things in it than sit here waiting for your answer as well ....I love the boards but would not put off life to be on them!!! It is a support not an obligation so if you are overloaded ...by all means pass on this thread there are others who will and have given me some good things to follow up on ....

[brats4]

Well I have been absent alot lately. Mostly because of time managment however I also confess that some of what I see here on ADBB disturbs me. I agree with Pebbles. I often seems members of tis board are very quick to judge all members of the medical community that conflict with Atkins as wrong or absurd. The problem is that these people are in the majority. Does that make them all incompetent as opposed to the ever competent Dr. A? I have serious issues with this mantra. I agree low carb works, but sometimes this place gets out of hand. I'm sure this will make others angry but it needs to be said at some point. Attack me if you'd like for this opinion. However, I strongly suggest what that "how dare you question" mentality translates. Admittedly I have issue with the candida theory. I took the yucky spit test, it register positive. However, since becoming pregnant I have been pretty much poked proded scraped and stuck by everyone within miles holding a medical degree. None have noted a yeast problem, I've even mentioned and zilch. Do I doubt its helped others, no. Perhaps though people need to be careful about portraying their experience as exact science. Support groups should not demand blind following directed toward an individual source. As nurselady mentioned, this is not religion/faith. However, if it were the reaction recieved by nurselady and pebbles for voicing doubts strongly reminds me of how a secluded group of believers would denounce their "unbelievers/sinners"

[2big4mysize]

those not reading this from the beginning of the time it was posted don't realize the original title of this topic was I promise and those opening it expected it to be about somebody starting the candida cleanse promising to follow the rules. Instead it was nurselady promising to stay out. then the title changed to you are being feed a load of crap and that angered those that do have yeast issues in their support forum. If that title had appeared on the Atkins board section and it was saying Atkins was a load of crap you can just imagine the replies it would have generated with most likely this topic being locked if not deleted and the poster warned along with all the repliers who violated the TOS in name calling.

That is where the candida sufferes community is coming from with their hostility Brats. there are actual medical fecal tests that can be run to see if your candida is out of control and blood test to see if you are having an immune system reaction to the candida.
For folks testing positive there can be no doubt they need the cleanse and medication to assist in the clease. If this "begnin" compound Nurseylady and Pebbles came out against can evoke an immune systen response then it is effecting the entire body just as an lung infection localized to the lung still effects the entire body.

[Desertthorn]

If that title had appeared on the Atkins board section and it was saying Atkins was a load of crap you can just imagine the replies it would have generated with most likely this topic being locked if not deleted and the poster warned along with all the repliers who violated the TOS in name calling.

2big, although I have know and loved you for many years, I hope that you are wrong. If someone came on this board and said Atkins was a bunch of crap, which they have, I hope that we as a community could give them their say and not lock it. Some kids do come on and say stuff which does get deleted because we know they are doing it just to get a rise out of us and don't really know what they are talking about.
But this is different. Nurselady, Pepples and now brats are saying that yeast may not be the end all cure all. What is the problem with having this discussion. If someone new to Atkins comes on this board, and they are stalled, and they read this post, I personally think they are better for it, not worse. I also bet that they will still try it and see if it works for them. Information, my friend, is power.
I have just reread the whole 4 pages of posts. I didn't see what BeckySue was referring to and I don't see a TOS violation. All I see is a group of very intellegent folks who have different opinions on a topic and expressing those opinions.
We included Candida on the new Atkins for Health , because Dr Atkins talks about it and he himself said that he could fine no evidence beyond
what he saw in his own practice. If he can offer that statement, we can certainly also debate it.

[pammie]

Just want to add my support too what Lynne is saying here.

I happen to believe that there is a problem with yeast out there, and I do believe that it s connected to diet and can affect weightloss.

That being said, I also want to hear from people with opposite beliefs. And I do not think threads need to be locked oor deleted just because people are stating their opinions...

now, if it turns into personal attacks, that is different. And that would be dealt with.

[Chynna]

I'm not upset at anyone for expressing their opinions. It's just the way in which it is expressed that may attract negative responses. I'm usually open for a discussion where information from both sides can be provided, granted that both sides are presented in a civil way.

Candida is a touchy issue. Even in the medical world. There are medical professionals who think that candida does not effect the body since it is a natural part of the intestinal flora and there are those that see, from their patients, that this is an epidemic in many people. Dr. A must have concluded that this infestation of candida is serious enough to prevent results, since he mentioned it in his book. Through his studies and trial-and-error methods, he realized that candida is one of the leading causes as to why some people stop losing weight.

Sure, alot of people do tend to jump-the-gun and do anything they can to resume weight loss after having a "stall", but doing the CAD and taking the supplements will not harm you in either way. CAD consists of whole foods and cannot harm you. Eating all those processed foods are harmful in that they cause people to gain weight, develope health problems and, for some, develope allergic reactions. Before the production of processed food, "man" had no choice but to eat whole foods.

Dr. A mentioned that those who have candida overgrowth get it from many years of eating the wrong foods and foods that promote the growth of candida. He also mentioned that these people, after years of eating this way and having candida overgrowth, are not aware of having it since this seemed to be "normal" for them.

Since curing my candida problem, I not only feel more energetic (which I never experienced even after doing induction and was clueless as to why others were gaining energy and I wasn't) but I also have my IBS under control. Sure, the resume in weight loss is a bonus, but ridding myself of the fatigue and the IBS was enough to convince me.

[not2late]

My 2 (net) carbs....

Science is the search for the truth. The truth can come in different forms, which is why it's best to keep an open mind to possibilities. Robert Koch and Louis Pasteur were laughed at by their scientific peers for expounding the germ theory. Linus Pauling was called a quack for his beliefs about Vitamin C. Joseph Lister was sneered at by his contemporaries for his anti-septic practices. Halsted was thought to be eccentric for performing surgery wearing sterile gloves. Ponsetti's corrective procedure for club feet wasn't even allowed to be discussed at Orthopedic surgery meetings as recently as 10 years ago. And we all know what happened to Dr. Atkins. This has been a pattern in the history of science and medicine. The guys who "think outside" the orthodox box are sometimes correct and years laters are called the great innovators.

I don't discount "anecdotal" evidence, because in my opinion all research is relatively anecdotal. The only thing is that factors are put into the study to make it less anecdotal. Research doesn't cover all bases--it's not fail proof. It has a margin or error and I don't kid myself into thinking it doesn't. Many medications, many procedures, many therapeutic plans have been introduced and touted as the "real thing" because research has shown it to be, only to be dropped when more research has disproved it. This doesn't mean I think all research is hogwash. It means, I'm still skeptical no matter who studied it and where it was published.

Most research is due to the fact that someone observes something and decides to test it to see if it really is that way consistently. Once science stops thinking outside the box and begins to discount possibilities, science is dead.

The anti-candida diet seems to work for some folks. Why? I don't know. Could it be killing off candida? It could. Could it be creating a nicer environment for normal gut flora to do their work? It could. Are folks just eliminating foods to which they have an intolerance? It could. Until studies come out, we'll never know what the mechanism of action is.

If it works for you, go for it.

[Heidi3]

Thank you guys I think we found a bridge let's do it again soon!!! :hug :hug :hug