Too much red meat?

[goin2Bgood]

Re: Too much red meat?

I love how the studies start out with: "Studies show that a diet high in red meat ... increases the risk of colorectal cancer..." then switches over to "diets high in red and processed meat..." and lumps processed meat right in with it. Excuse me, but there is a difference between a steak and a hot dog so stop putting it together. Both studies posted so far have done that. Any bets on the real troublemaker in those studies?

As far as sugar feeding cancer goes, Dr. Atkins seemed to think it did. He says so in DANDR.

[goin2Bgood]

Re: Too much red meat?

Piasabird, I'm very sorry about your Mom. I meant to start out my other post with it

[Super Duper Matt]

Re: Too much red meat?

I love how the studies start out with: "Studies show that a diet high in red meat ... increases the risk of colorectal cancer..." then switches over to "diets high in red and processed meat..." and lumps processed meat right in with it. Excuse me, but there is a difference between a steak and a hot dog so stop putting it together. Both studies posted so far have done that. Any bets on the real troublemaker in those studies?

As far as sugar feeding cancer goes, Dr. Atkins seemed to think it did. He says so in DANDR.

I thought all food turned to sugar when it enters the body. I guess we should all stop eating. Im curious to read that do you know where he said that. Can you post a reference?

[america57]

Re: Too much red meat?

I know how you feel Steph, I have never been a big fan of meat, cow, chicken or turkey or any other kind, maybe because my grandparents had a farm and I knew the animals that came to our table? It does make doing Atkins harder, I don't have any suggestions, just sympathy.

[ttdriver]

Re: Too much red meat?

Not to sound rude but shouldn't you say, I am not a doctor (IANAD) before stating that you have found a cure for cancer?

I guess you can't read. I never said I found a cure. But do your homework, Mr. Super Duper .. there is PLENTY OF EVIDENCE that sugar feeds cancer. In fact, the test they use to look for cancer cells works with GLUCOSE. Here's some SUPER DUPER reading for you.

http://www.mnwelldir.org/docs/nutrition/sugar.htm
Sugar and cancer

Of the over 4 million cancer patients being treated in the U.S. today, almost none are offered any scientifically guided nutrition therapy other than being told to "just eat good foods." Many cancer patients would have a major improvement in their conditions if they controlled the supply of cancer's preferred fuel: GLUCOSE. By slowing the cancer's growth, patients make it possible for their immune systems to catch up to the disease. Controlling one's blood-glucose levels through diet, exercise, supplements, meditation and prescription drugs - when necessary - can be one of the most crucial components to a cancer treatment program. The saying "Sugar feeds cancer" is simple. The explanation is a little more involved.

German Otto Warburg, Ph.D., the 1931 Nobel laureate in medicine, first discovered that cancer cells have a fundamentally different energy metabolism compared to healthy cells. The gist of his Nobel thesis was this: malignant tumors frequently exhibit an increase in "anaerobic glycolysis" - a process whereby glucose is used by cancer cells as a fuel with lactic acid as an anaerobic by-product - compared to normal tissues.(1) The large amount of lactic acid produced by this fermentation of glucose from the cancer cells is then transported to the liver. This conversion of glucose to lactate creates a lower, more acidic PH in cancerous tissues as well as overall physical fatigue from lactic acid build-up.(2,3) Therefore, larger tumors tend to exhibit a more acidic PH.(4)

Hence, cancer therapies should attempt to regulate blood-glucose levels through diet, supplements, exercise, medication when necessary, gradual weight loss and stress reduction. Since cancer cells derive most of their energy from anaerobic glycolysis, the goal is not to eliminate sugars or carbohydrates entirely from the diet but rather to control blood-glucose within a narrow range to help starve the cancer cells and boost immune function.

http://www.alternativehealth.com.au/...r_&_cancer.htm

[stephbob]

Re: Too much red meat?

WOOOO! Go Betty haha

[LC_Dave]

Re: Too much red meat?

I thought all food turned to sugar when it enters the body.

This is not the case.

[Super Duper Matt]

Re: Too much red meat?

Okay Betty, lets see what you wrote,

I am a TRUE red meat carnivore. If I had to give it up, I'd sooner die.

I agree totally with 2big....

ITS SUGAR THAT FEEDS CANCER. Not red meat. Now, go eat a steak![img]images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Betty

You implied eating sugar “Feeds” cancer and eating red meat does not. My dear, you were incorrect in stating that. In fact as I stated earlier in this thread, all foods that enter the body are turned into glucose.

I'm not going to go over everything I am just going to keep it simple.

“Many cancer patients would have a major improvement in their conditions if they controlled the supply of cancer's preferred fuel: GLUCOSE.”

Have you ever herd of a little thing called Gluconeogenesis? It an interesting little process that turns protien and fat into GLUCOSE, the fuel for our body.



From wikipedia:

“Gluconeogenesis is the generation of glucose from other organic molecules like lactate, glycerol, and amino acids“


This is from the link you posted:

“The wasting syndrome, cachexia, is the body producing sugar from proteins (you heard it right, not from carbohydrates or fats, but from proteins) in a process called glycogenesis. This sugar feeds the cancer. The body finally dies of starvation, trying to feed the cancer.”

Protiens such as, Amino Acids? Betty, where do we get most most of our Amino Acids on Atkins?



=================================


TTdriver also said, “In fact, the test they use to look for cancer cells works with GLUCOSE. Here's some SUPER DUPER reading for you.”


Here is some reading for you from good doctor Timothy Moynihan.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/cancer/HO00033

People with cancer shouldn't eat sugar, since it can cause cancer to grow faster.

Sugar doesn't make cancer grow faster. All cells, including cancer cells, depend on blood sugar (glucose) for energy. But giving more sugar to cancer cells doesn't speed their growth. Likewise, depriving cancer cells of sugar doesn't slow their growth.

This misconception may be based in part on a misunderstanding of positron emission tomography (PET) scans. Doctors use PET scans to help determine the location of a tumor and see if it has spread.

During a PET scan, your doctor injects a small amount of radioactive tracer — typically a form of glucose — into your body. All tissues in your body absorb some of this tracer. But tissues that are using more energy — exhibiting increased metabolic activity — absorb greater amounts.

Tumors are often more metabolically active than healthy tissues. As a result, they may absorb greater amounts of the tracer. For this reason, some people have concluded that cancer cells grow faster on sugar. But this isn't true.”

Thank you for your link and the education! Oh, IANAD.[img]images/smilies/icon_hug.gif[/img]




I did learn a lot about cancer. I found some interesting articles. Thanks!

[2big4mysize]

Re: Too much red meat?

Pisa sorry about your mother. I tried to follow your link but it doesn't work for me. I did however do to WebMD but as going to be good has already pointed out they lumpee everything in there not just read meat. Just as the almond board drew a faulthing concludsion from the data in their press release about the JH and Havard docs proving almonds lowere cholesterol and high blood pressure when in fact the study wasn't about almonds at all.

Dave interesting logic about the PETas the source for the sugar misinfo, but PET scans were not invented when that doc did his work and won the nobel.

Oh and you forgot that the article said the body was starving because the cancer was eating all the sugar and then produced sugars from proteins. Atkins folk are not body starved.

Back to Stephbob if you were a vegetarian why didn't you do a vegetarian Atkins? Missy 90 is a goalie vegetarian and we have info up in the FAQ to help vegetarians do induction

[changing]

Re: Too much red meat?

Not to be ultra-picky, but most of what is added to food is not mere monosaccharides (e. g. glucose) but disaccharides and polysaccharides. Table sugar, for example, is sucrose, which is a combination of both glucose and fructose. The high concentration of these substances does in fact provide excess sugars, which include more varieties than just glucose.

When we eat food with added corn syrup and "sugar" as listed ingredients we are hardly eating mere glucose. We experience much longer saccharide chains than those of a monosaccharide.

I just had to establish that sucrose (table sugar) does not equal glucose.

[2big4mysize]

Re: Too much red meat?

changing

they are discussing internal glucose which is the sugar unit of the human body before energy reations fracture it or remake it. the human body fractures those molecules you listed to glucose in digetion.

[changing]

Re: Too much red meat?

Yes, exactly!

What I meant by my distinction was to say that sucrose produces a tonload of basic sugars... making it waaay more malicious than the glucose that chugs its way through our basic physiology.

The complex sugars are nasty stuff and flood us with basic sugars when they start to break down.

That's all I was saying.

I shouldn't have jumped into the middle of this crazy firestorm anyway.

[2big4mysize]

Re: Too much red meat?

go ahead and jump in I though you thought they were discussing eating glucose and was just clarifying.

[LC_Dave]

Re: Too much red meat?

In fact as I stated earlier in this thread, all foods that enter the body are turned into glucose.

Matt, where do you ketosis entering into the equation ? Especially someone eating a ketogenic diet?

[Piasabird]

Re: Too much red meat?

Thanks to all who gave condolences about my mother.

Hey 2Big! The link worked when I posted, but it doesn't seem to work now. So here it is again. http://www.webmd.com/content/article...000_0000_f1_03

Red-Meat Eaters Risk Colon Cancer
Eating 3 Ounces of Red Meat Per Day May Beef Up Cancer Risk By Daniel DeNoon
WebMD Medical News Reviewed By Michael Smith, MD
on Tuesday, January 11, 2005
Jan. 11, 2005 -- Bad news for beef eaters: Red meat really does increase your risk of colon cancer.

It's not exactly news. Many studies suggest that people who eat the most meat get the most cancer. Now a huge, 20-year study from the American Cancer Society confirms these findings. The bottom line: Those who eat the most red meat -- beef and/or pork and/or processed meat products -- get colon cancer 30% to 40% more often than those who eat these foods only once in a while.

The news is particularly bad for those who favor lots of lunchmeats, hot dogs, and sausages. Eating lots of these processed foods raises colon cancer risk by 50%, reports Marjorie L. McCullough, ScD, senior epidemiologist at the American Cancer Society in Atlanta. McCullough and colleagues report the findings in the Jan. 12 issue of The Journal of the American Medical Association.

"The bottom line is that the people who were eating the most red meat had higher colon cancer risk than those eating the least," McCullough tells WebMD. "Very few of these lower-risk people ate no red meat. It is not that we are saying people can never have red meat. But this shows it is important to limit the amount of red meat you eat."

The researchers collected detailed information on the diets of nearly 150,000 men and women aged 50 to 74 living in 21 U.S. states. They collected data in 1982 and 1992-1993, and followed them through the end of August 2001. In that time, 1,667 of the study participants developed colon cancer.

The study accounted for factors that are known to increase colon cancer risk, such as smoking, being overweight, little physical activity, alcohol use, age, and low fiber intake as well as factors known to decrease risk, such as daily aspirin use.

Please click on the link to read the rest.