Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

[cleochatra]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

2big-- I think this is where we just have to agree to disagree. We are not going to see eye-to-eye on this issue.

To whit,

Some people see calorie counting as feasible. Some don't.

Some people see ratio/percentages as feasible. Some don't.

Some people see one golden shot as feasible. Some don't.

Some see modified OWL as feasible. Some don't.

Some see extended induction as feasible. Some don't.

These could all be considered as issues with two sides. I think they're all beneficial things to think about in the long run and ought not be discounted.

There is something valuable for each and every one of us in each of these issues.

[2big4mysize]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

I'm sure we are not going to see eye to eye on it but new to Atkins foklk need to be told from day one to learn that hunger practicing Dr Atkins technique for learning it and focus on feeding it even if it taskes 4000 cals today cause tomorrow it may take just 600.

Once they learn hunger is the control they will be atkins successes for life and not have to be controlled by an abitrary number that may or may not run them out of gas or overflow the tank today. it is when they run out of gas and are hungery but have reached their abitrary number that cheats and binges start.

weight of food in the belly isn't a gauge of hunger.

[cleochatra]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

We don't disagree there, 2big! We don't disagree there.

There's value in looking at it in a variety of ways.

{{{thanks}}} for the discussion

[Rick]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

Man... I've been gone today!!! How many posts have been made to this thread?!!

It's a great topic for discussion, and it's probably run it's course. There are great points on each side of this story, both having their merits.

Does counting calories have it's merits? For some, definitely yes. For others, it's one more difficult thing that doesn't need to complicate this whole weight loss thing.

Do we need to count calories, according to Dr. A? No, he says to not calories, but that calories do count. I totally agree with this statement. I am not normally going to sit down before eating and ask myself, "Just how many calories are in this meal?". But, I sure might give it a thought if I'm putting a whole ton of heavy stuff into my body. Pure science tells me that it's "garbage in/garbage out". So, I know that in one way or another I need to get rid of more than I ingest in a day to lose. There's just no way to put more in/take less out and still lose weight. If we can ignite that fire (ketosis) and learn to burn more, then we're ahead of the game and can take in the same ammount and still lose. Notice that I didn't say lose weight... We can lose weight or mass, and both count. Weight is noticable, because we can step on the scale in the morning and say "Hey, I lost a lb". It's not the best measurement though, that's what we get through verification of inches, and our own self worth.

The real deal is just how we feel about ourselves. If we count calories, don't lose and feel better about "us", then great... If we ignore the calories, keep our ratios correct and lose inches, "great". There are just so many variables to this whole journey, and we each see and guage them differently. Yes, I know the book is black and white, but "us"... well, we all see things in different colors.

I don't think that even Dr. Atkins would disagree that this is a good discussion. And, I think that he'd have enjoyed the fact that we're even talking about this!!!

Rick

[sadie@136]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

i would only say"calories still matter"!!!

[LC_Dave]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

Dave I answered you way back before you ask Cal counting doesn't need to be Atkins if you do as Dr Atkins said and learn and then use your hunger as your guide.

2big,

I was asking the others, because I believe what you said.

[2big4mysize]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

I look at it like this since many iof you are arguing that it takes time or they haven't mastered learning to listen to their hunger when refueling. When a newbie tells us they have decided to alter Dr Atkins plan cause they want to eat ________ ,not eat veggies, will not exercise, or give up something Dr Atkins tells them to do we wish them well on THEIR plan but point out it isn't Atkins. So if a newbie decides not to from day one learn about their appetite and hunger control as Dr Atkins told them to in DANDR then are they not doing their own plan too and not his? that is what this comes down to.
learning our hunger satisfaction point and not our belly stretch receptors point is what Dr Atkins was talking about when he said eat some and stop. if you are hungry in a bit eat a few more bites and stop. Just as he teaches us not to fear the fats (and every low fat cal counting dieter has to overcome that fear when they start) and every veggie hater has to learn to eat them when they start so too is hunger learning just one more REQUIRED part of Induction.

You can chose to ignore that exercise in eating and do your own program and you will lose until you get to the point your eating exceeds your fuel burning just as Dr Atkins says in DANDR chapter 11 Q and A when he points out any plan where cal burning from all sources doesn't exceed cal intake folk will not lose weight, but again if you don't do what Dr Atkins says to do then you are not doing his plan!

[changing]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

Dave, I haven't piped in yet, but I'd like to make a statement that is somewhat related to your question. I believe wholeheartedly in the metabolic advantage. I also believe that while calories might matter to a minor extent (the importance assuaged by the beauty of metabolic advantage), that calorie-counting doesn't matter! I think that with the proper training, consistency, and care to recognize one's body's hunger cries or lack thereof, your body will instruct you how to proceed. It seems important, to me at least, as a part of this WoE and WoL to center your life around things other than food. Hobbies, family, friends, work, school, exercise, or whatever activities/events suit your fancy. If I'm doing that, and keeping busy, I do not eat until I'm hungry--which, for me, means actual hunger pains. Then I eat until I feel better, refueled but not sluggish, stuffed, or sick. Then my life outside of food recommences. Sometimes, I find it helpful to drink a tall glass of water with my meal and eat slowly--eating slowly is particularly helpful for gauging true hunger.

Honestly, for me, calorie-counting makes me obsessed with food and therefore more likely to binge. Just my two cents.

Don't pelt me with stones because I'm a newbie doling out my opinion!!!
(This is my second-time around. Did Atkins for 2 years before. Calorie-counted and obsessed, lost my footing on the wagon, and gained it back.)

[Jellybean1984]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

See I needed help controlling my portions, I can eat some of whats on a plate and leave the rest, it is not possible...It sounds sad but it is true. I dont depend on cals or make it my life I mearly watch them, and watching them has changed my apitite.one week of watching them and I dont want no more. So I am weak or not following or whatever but the point of this was it helped me help me. I dont think anyone is arguing Its points being shared. I dont watch mine much anymore after one week of watching them i relise what my body wants and I am smarter. So I am weak but I wouldnt change my choice for the world. I stick to atkins in every aspect just watch the cals and I have actually got my radio's to line up, like almost dead on.
To each there own, and I shouldn't even reply but I do feel that it has helped me listen to my body and understaqnd what it needs.
Instead of eatting butter to make my levels work out they just work out.

[cleochatra]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

2big-- Counting Calories is still doing Atkins as much as using ratios is still doing Atkins and as much as following extended induction or modified OWL is still doing Atkins.

Maybe in your perception they are not follwoing Atkins... but perception is definitely subjective.

[cleochatra]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

{{{{changing}}}{{{{Jenler}}}} {{{Thick Rick}}}

All excellent posts. Sorry for not commenting sooner. I've been ill with flu today.

[Jellybean1984]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

Hope you Feel better!!

[Sheshy]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

So if a newbie decides not to from day one learn about their appetite and hunger control as Dr Atkins told them to in DANDR then are they not doing their own plan too and not his? that is what this comes down to.

If making a "decision" to follow the Atkins plan was all I needed, or any other weight loss plan for that matter, and I really had that kind of control with my appetite/emotion eating, I would have all lost my weight long ago...or never gained it. The lack of mastery of appetite/hunger control doesn't mean I don't practice every single day.

So, saying that because someone is struggling with that part of the Atkins plan is the same as eating off plan or modifying is just not realistic, in my opinion. Some people master the appetite and hunger control right away and for others it might take more time to 'hear' what their body is saying...I think the important thing here is to say everyone is different, in the way they learn and change bad habits...sometimes it takes more time to master.

As this conversation/discussion began, some track everything, some don't and that's okay...there's no need to convince or change anyones mind.

[wannabethintoo]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

You can chose to ignore that exercise in eating and do your own program and you will lose until you get to the point your eating exceeds your fuel burning just as Dr Atkins says in DANDR chapter 11 Q and A when he points out any plan where cal burning from all sources doesn't exceed cal intake folk will not lose weight, but again if you don't do what Dr Atkins says to do then you are not doing his plan!

Hmmmm, well if I'm not doing Atkins then maybe I shouldn't be here.

[ttdriver]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

if you don't do what Dr Atkins says to do then you are not doing his plan!

Betty