Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

[RationalBeing]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

Cleo, I did an interesting experiment yesterday regarding calories.

Yesterday I only ate around 1200 calroies or so. Here is what I did:

Woke up: 9am

Morning
Protein Shake - 47g protein / 3g carbs - 225 cals
Ran 1 hour (6 miles) - 550 calories burned
2 egg omlette with cheese & salsa - 15g protein / 3g carbs - 250 cals

Afternoon
Broccoli (raw) with blue cheese dip - 3g protein / 3g carbs - 150 cals
Diet Coke (12oz)

Dinner / nighttime

Protein Shake - 47g protein / 3g carbs - 225 cals
Ran 1 hour (6 miles) - 550 calories burned
2 egg omlette with cheese & salsa - 15g protein / 3g carbs - 250 cals

Water total: about 80oz of water consumed
Carb total: 15g
Protein total: 127g
Calories total eaten: 1100 calories
Calories total burned: 1100 calories

So, food was all "invalidated" by my exercise - thus I *should* have lost exactly the amount of my basal metabolic rate which at 197lbs, is just over 2000 calories.

2000 calories / 3500calories per pound = .6 pounds lost

So I weigh in this morning - yesterday I was 196.2lbs - this morning, low and behold - 195.4lbs - Down .8lbs!!

Why .8 insted of .6? Could be a variation in my scale (it reads in .2 incriments), could be water dehydration (although I weigh myself same time every morning) among others. But I think these results are pretty consistent.

Conclusion here - indeed, its all about calories. If you want to lose weight, you need to mind the calories. But, atkins is STILL the best way because of the natural appetite supression. I love atkins!

[cleochatra]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

Just as an aside. Not everything we discuss at ADBB was discussed or elaborated upon in DANDR. The ratios? Not DANDR. Cephalic response or snipping foods to assuage hunger and cravings? Scientific but not mentioned in DANDR. Atkins does mention calories. Sure, he doesn't want people to focus only on calories. We don't. But it would be sloppy to intimate that calories don't matter, because they do.

In the end, calories still matter.

And if there are any people who disagree with me, that's ok! I don't take the debate personally. I see it as scientific and as responsible. The only reason I gave it its own thread was not necessarily to make a grand statement but to avoid hijacking another person's thread. I think it is a discussion worth having, regardless where people fall on the issue.

I think at this point we're just talking around each other. We've both made excellent points, but now we're going in circles.

We can agree to disagree on this issue if you still think we disagree.

I do appreciate the discussion.

[cleochatra]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

I agree with you, Rational! Thanks for taking the time to put that information together! You are wonderful. {{{Rational}}}

[Austlyn]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

Cleo,
I just finished boot camp and that forced me to read the entire book cover to cover.
which turned out to be a great thing for me and in the chapter on metabolic resistance he says that he has had to put a select few on a very low calorie version with much less fat for a month to jump start weight loss. 600 to 800 calories for a month and then slowly add in an ounce of cheese every two weeks I am sure everyone can find the chapter in the 2002 dandr.
I hope I am not intruding but I am sure he said that calories do count just not in the begining. In fact he states that the difference is that on a low-fat low-calorie diet you can only have 1500 calories and on Atkins you could successfully have 2000 and still lose of course this is an average and for taller people may be more and shorter people less depending on height and build.
He just did not want people to get obbsessed with counting them I think.
Especially if they were really overweight to begin with they would lose just by following the diet but the less you weigh the more you will have to watch calorie intake especially woman.
Woman have a much greater propensity to gain weight since they carry around 20% more bady fat for making babies, this is the reason men lose easier.
Sorry if butted in but I think counting calories is important I try not go over 2000 though fit day clearly says I would be able to maintain at 2900-3100
I have not found that to be true so while doing boot camp I found that Dr. A did not mean that to always be true. That was to my surprize he also says some people will not be able to have cheese.

[cleochatra]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

No, thanks for butting in Austlyn (if you would dare call it that). I think discussions should include anyone and everyone who have anything to say about the issue! I'm glad you're here!

I agree that during induction calories ought not be considered as a factor, technically (they can be but ought not be something pay people attention to unless they can ignore the fact that even if they start out eating 2,000 a day it's still less than the initial 3500+ a day!). I honestly did bring that up, but, in all honesty, it's been lost in the 10 pages somewhere. *l* I don't expect that anyone has the time to sift through this many pages of discussion, and I understand it. Frankly, I fall asleep reading half of what I write anyway.

Long story short: we agree!

You did super in Boot Camp, too! Way to go, girl! Almost 40 pounds down! Work it, honey!

[2big4mysize]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

Austlyn congrats on reading thewhole book are you feeding only your hunger at every meal and snack? or do you pre decide what to have at each meal and snack to stay under your self imposed 2000 cal limit?

You are discussing metabolically resistant folk and if you look he put them on a very high fat plan called the fat fast in chapter 20 with about 1250 cals. they are not the normal person doing Atkins and he says so in his discussion of plateaus and stalls in chapter 15 and in chapter 12 and 13 when he is discussing metabolically resistant folk. he also says Atkins will help heal their metabolism too doing longer induction.

You can not eat any cals drink tons of water and eat lots of salt out of your hand and gain 10 pounds over night so don't think an overnight weight change is due to lowering your cals that day. as you also lost the cal burn generated by digesting those cals too from your daily calorie burning something those not understanding the human body metabolism wouldn't know about.

Actually Cleo the ratio is in the book if you break down the sample menues. not sure what that snipping thing is referring to

[cleochatra]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

2big-- do you think I'm snipping? My apologies! I certainly never intended to. I think snipping isn't debate. It's ad hominem. I honestly make every attempt to steer away from making any personal comments. If you perceived a snip, then I wasn't effective enough at trying to be very conscious of use of language in this discussion.

So, by your reasoning with ratios, calories matter, too. Because we're all restricting calories on atkins, even if he doesn't mention it (as with ratios).

Nobody is downing ratios. Calories are the same thing. A tool. Just like ratios.

Again, we agree!

{{{2big}}}

[Austlyn]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

Cleo yes we agree and I know Dr. A agreed he just did not out and out state to the fact, but I am sure the message is there. Now I know what I am doing tonight I am reading the book again. I will post exactly where I found the info.....


2big while I repect your oppnion, this diet has not been as suppressive for me as for other people and no I am not getting hiddin carbs. I am in moderate ketosis. Like last night I had 2020 calories and my stomach was growling I ignored it and went to bed simply because I have had trouble above that many calories. I just started counting calories during boot camp and my weight loss resumed and I was only feeding hunger before that. I must tell you that before about 6 years ago I saw an interveiw With Dr Atkins in which he discussed having to deal with hunger pains while cutting down food portions, and while I am not dying like I would be out ketosis. i was able to deal with the pains because the thing that always got my were bs swings. i just feel that calorie counting is a good tool to help us learn where portoins should be cut down to as you are not that person you started off being. I also know that in that part of the book he says about three times 2000 calories is about average to keep losing.
I definantly do not think that an overnight weight change is due to counting calories one day and I don't eat salt and I don't put it in my cooking I watch butter intake because of calories, and I use vinegar and oil dressing. In fact it took my 14 days of counting calories to lose 3 pounds.
I am sorry for the dissagreement but we are going to have to agree to disagree, and this is my second time doing Atkins and the only reason that is ,is because I have a 4 and 2 year old now and I have been back on track since November. So see my loss has tken about 31/2 months so far.
I am sorry to leave in the middle of a disscussion but my brother maintains my computer and all are networking so I have to go. But I will be back!!!!!!!

[2big4mysize]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

LOL no Cleo you wrote

Cephalic response or snipping foods to assuage hunger and cravings?

and i didn't understand what snipping was. And actually OWL is all about cephalic responses Cleo. If a food gives you trouble you drop it period and can retry it later. 5 net carbs of any food on those lower lists should not trigger blood sugar instsability if you are under your CCLL. He just doesn't say that food triggered you cause you had a cephalic response to it. Dr Atkins discusses many mnay things without dicussing the scinetific names for them.

yes cleo cutting cals can be another name for lowering portions but any weight loss person not just those doing Atkins needs to learn about their hunger and only feed that hunger. granted that is harder ona low cal high carb plan cause they don't get the blood sugar control Atkineers do.

Sorry Austlyn the salt and overnight weight wasn't about your post Rational being posted before you about losing.8 pounds cause he cut his cals the day before to see if it was true.

About your bloos sugar issues ahve you looked at your foods to see if a legalone is triggering you to have them. eating celery triggered food cravings for me even though it is legal. Same with Splenda sweetened foods.

[cleochatra]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan



Oh GEEZ. I meant sniffing. It's amazing what happens when I think I can type and listen to the radio at the same time.

I think when it comes down to it, you and I are going to continue to go around and around on this, with neither of us convincing the other one of our amazing brilliance on the issue.

Let's face it: we're both women of immense coolness.

It's a cross we have to bear.




Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go and snip some chocolate.

[2big4mysize]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

OH I was trying to figure out what in DANDR you could be talking about snipping stuff.

have fun with your choclate as you aren;t a cephalic responder like me.

[not2late]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

Cleo,
I just finished boot camp and that forced me to read the entire book cover to cover.
which turned out to be a great thing for me and in the chapter on metabolic resistance he says that he has had to put a select few on a very low calorie version with much less fat for a month to jump start weight loss. 600 to 800 calories for a month and then slowly add in an ounce of cheese every two weeks I am sure everyone can find the chapter in the 2002 dandr..

I think you are referring to the Fat Fast. In DANDR 2002, Dr. Atkins used the Fat Fast (carb and calorie restriction) for a very special subset of people---those who have a very high metabolic resistance to weight loss that isn't due to medications, candida, medical disorders like thyroid disease, or hyperinsulinemia. For these people the Fat Fast gets them into ketosis/lipolysis because entry into lipolysis is dependent on the fat-to-carb intake ratio.

I just want to make that clear to anyone reading this thread, because the Fat Fast is dangerous for folks who aren't in this subset.

[DebbietheHugBug]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

Wow, what a great thread! There have been a lot of good points made in this discussion. We all obviously look at things differently.


I would like to add my 2 carbs worth if I may.......

I do believe calories and carbs count and here is why.

I have done the diet pills, I have done the detox diets, I have done Nutri-system, Jenny Craig, Weight Watchers, starvations and now Atkins. This is what I have learned from all of them, this that they all have in common.

Portion control - yes, even though during induction on Atkins we are allowed to eat some foods "liberally". The induction phase of Atkins is a sort of cleansing, as most diets usually have when you first start them. You lose because you are cutting out all the junk and crap food and eating healthy and using healthy fats in your food.

Atkins starts out with 3 cups of veggies per day. There is a list of "acceptable foods" you can have, each one with daily limits to stay within a 65/30/5 ratio. Weight Watchers gave me a 23 point daily limit. Even though I stayed within that limit, I gained weight. Why? I didn't receive any guidance as to where those points were suppose to come from. I had the WW packaged foods for my lunches. ALL of them contained rice or pasta. I got very frustrated in addition to the fact that I was ALWAYS hungry. I did modify and cut out pastas and ate more fresh meats. The weight started to fall off but I was still always hungry. Jenny Craig and Nutri-System is a packaged food diet. Everything is portioned out for you. When it's gone, you can't have anything more. I failed on those because when I made my goal, I didn't know how to eat real food. I went back to my old habits.

Calories aren't the only things that count. It depends on where you are getting the calories from. If I had - say - 1300 calorie/day limit, could I eat a 1200 calorie Big Mac everyday (and nothing else) and still lose? Personally, not with my metabolism. Could I eat 900 calories/day of bacon and still lose? I don't even want to try. It's a combination of calories/fat/carbs that makes our bodies move.

If we get our portions right, the calories will (hopefully) fall in line. Our bodies will tell us when we need energy (food) if we listen to it. About 8 years ago, I had great success just watching my portions. I ate my meals on a saucer instead of a dinner plate. When I was finished, that was it. No 2nds. I drank tons of water. Why did I get fat again? Because I didn't have the discipline to realize that I had to keep doing what I'm doing to stay skinny. I thought "ok, I'm skinny, now I can eat whatever I want to."

Exercise - here is my controversy with this. Yes, exercise is known to curb the appetite in some ways. When I workout, I don't want to eat or maybe I eat less.... for that day. Then usually the next day, I'm famished. So if I'm allowed 1300 cal/day and I burn 200/day working out..... but working out makes me hungrier so I eat 300 cal more to keep my tummy from growling and passing out, then I don't feel like I've accomplished much weight wise. Health wise however, I know I'm doing good for my heart and overall health. I guess consistency is the key. When you work out regularly and your body knows what to expect, you can control things much better.

Anyway, in a nutshell, I believe it all counts. Having done almost every diet in the world, I know that calories, fat AND carbs DO count!

[cleochatra]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

Excellent post, Debbie! You rock it. Thanks for taking the time to type that well-thought out post. It's beautiful. Just like you.

[LC_Dave]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

How come......

I live with someone who has lost weight and looks fabulous and she has never counted a calorie?

She is 5 foot 11.(178 cms)
She weighed 83 kilos (182.6 pounds) (BMI 26) and is now 66 kilos (145.2 pounds)(BMI 21)

So a total of 17 kilos (37.4 pounds)

She had this blubbery gut that hanged out, now it's flat and smooth!

She's hopeless, she would never be able to consciously restrict her intake or count calories.

She started at the same time as me. Sometimes she eats the same size meal as me!

She's my fiancee and started Atkins when I did.