Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

[Rick]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

Nobody here has said that they are not following Dr. Atkins plan or directions. All that is being said is that they've perhaps also added another tool to help them. If you're still eating to satisfy hunger, getting the proper ratios of fat/protein/carbs, doing your exercise, drinking your water, eating only from the acceptable foods list, then you are doing Atkins, am I right?

If so, then what is the harm in also counting your calories, as long as you don't let them control you? If you're hungry, eat... just eat right.

Maybe I'm missing something important?

[Perry]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

Maybe I'm missing something important?

Not at all, Rick.

[not2late]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

Nope Rick you aren't missing any point. As I said in my previous posts, when Dr. Atkins wrote "you don't have to count calories" on his diet, people misread it as "calories don't count (matter)", selectively ignoring that he writes a couple more times in the book that you can't stuff yourself like a Thanksgiving turkey and expect to lose weight on any diet, including his own! They also read the word "eat liberally" in the Acceptable Food list and interpret that as "I can eat 50 pounds of bacon every single day of my life on Atkins!" This is classic food addict psychology. A food addict reads "don't count calories" and interprets it as "calories don't count". An alcoholic reads "moderate alcohol drinking can be beneficial to your health" and interprets it as "woohoo! Drinking 3 cases of beer is good for my health!"

That is the crux of this whole 19 page thread: the interpretation of "don't count calories". To 2Big and me, that sentence means "you don't have to sit and calculate the calories of every teaspoon of food that passes your lips". To others it means, "calories don't matter on Atkins you can you eat as much you want of certain foods".

So it boils down to this: if you think "don't count calories" means "calories don't matter and you can eat as much as you want of certain foods on Atkins", do whatever you want to do. If you think "don't count calories" means "I don't have to count the calories I eat on Atkins because Dr. Atkins wrote that I won't feel hungry and he also wrote I'm not supposed to stuff myself", do whatever you want to do.

This thread has become repetitive and redundant, imo.

[sombersusie]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

Aaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnd CUT!

wtg people! it was great while it lasted wasn't it?

THE END

*well it's worth a shot anyways *

[cleochatra]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

Thanks, everyone! It has been a great discussion!

[2big4mysize]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

yep Rick if you or anybody else didn't read their DANDR and start practicing on day 1 of induction portion control by learning how little it takes to satisfy your hunger then you did miss something important in Atkins.

Too mnay folk tell new to ADBB and to Atkins to just eat on induction. That isn't what the good Dr said. he said to learn your hunger by eating part of the food you served yourself and stopping. it you aren't hunger walk away knowing you can eat again as soon as you feel hungry. IF you are still hungry eat a few more and stop. He repeatedly warns about overeating our legal atkins foods.

Yes as Sheshy pointed out you aren't going to learn it on day one but just as exercise takes time to get into the habit of doing so to will practicing that every meal teach you to learn your hunger. Emotional overeating is something else entirely, but that doesn't happen on a daily bases every freaking meal!

I'm sure you have all seen folk saying I Hate water what else can I drink? do you tell them to sure go ahead have something else or do you tell them to drink the water and why it is important part of Atkins and how you too didn't enjoy it on day one but it grew on you? SO why can't y'all practice the stopping eating and learn your hunger? I'm really having a hard time understandiung why all the folk saying I can't do that or I have to use cal counting to avoid over eating don't even try to do it. How many of you that said you don't know your hunger in this topic even tried Dr Atkins method for even one meal since your first post in theis topic? See it isn't that you can't, it is that you won't even try to do so and that is the sad part.

[cleochatra]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

I know my hunger and still count calories.

It's definitely a tool I have employed in taking off these 115 pounds.

[Rick]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

2big,
I think you're taking my statements out of context, completely. I think that if you read what I've written, that you'll see that we really agree on this whole thing. I've stated that I think that we need to eat until satisfied, not overdoing it. I've been all about doing it strictly by the book, and yes, I've read DANDR, several times. All I'm saying that I can see you're having a problem with is that I think that looking at calories, not letting them control you, is just possibly a tool that can be used. I never, EVER, said that it should be THE rule for this WOL.

I don't think that there's one thing that works for every person. Atkins doesn't work for everyone, though it's been good... no, Great, for me up to this point. Some people can get by just by their genes, and never have to worry about what they put in their mouths (lucky few). Then, there are some of us (I assume most of us here) that are metabolically challenged, who have grown up watching everything that passed our gums.

I guess I just don't get the point that you're trying to make saying that all of us who think that calories are important is wrong.

Do you mean to say that calories don't count? That's not what Dr. A. said... He just said not to count them. I agree with that when talking about breaking addictions and cravings, but I guess I have a problem with it in long term, overall health and stability.

Here's what I truly think:

1. Living the Atkins lifestyle is a natural appetite suppressant. Eating foods that are properly proportioned in fat/protein/carb ratios will satisfy your hunger.

2. Given time, and effort, adhering to rule #1 will naturally lower your caloric intake because as you lose weight/inches you will require less and less to satisfy your hunger.

3. Rules #1, and #2, taken together will lead to a successful and healthy lifestyle, which will (if you really look at it) be the result of a lower caloric intake and more physical exertion. Do you honestly eat as many calories today as you did when you began this WOL on a daily basis?

It's all a matter of semantics. Which came first, the chicken or the egg? (ok, I like eggs now that I'm doing Atkins, maybe not a good choice of verbage) It really doesn't matter how we get there, it's just important that we do. Counting calories, portion control, eating until satisfied... they all do the same exact thing, they teach us how much we should need for nourishment of our bodies. When we learn that food is just a fuel to keep us going (took me up until just weeks ago to realize this), then we'll keep abusing it as we have in the past, and we'll have the same day to day struggles. It's what got us here in the first place.

So, please, let's just try to see every side of this thing.... if it were truly easy there would be no need for this website, no need for Atkins friends and support, and we would not be having this discussion. There is no right or wrong to this thread, just thoughts and opinions.... evidently a zillion of them!!!

[2big4mysize]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

1. Living the Atkins lifestyle is a natural appetite suppressant.

Oh that I wish that were true. Appetite suppression will vaporize when we get to premaintnenace eating and even to our CCLL in the later days of OWL.

those that have taken the time to learn what their hunger is and how to know when they have eatten enough to satisfy it will be able to deal with this every day every meal and snack. Those that haven't taken the time to learn it will be in trouble and either a slave to the cal counting for every meal/snack while they really don't know how many cals their body actually needed at that time or on a run away eating trip moving the inches and sclaes in the wrong direction.

[not2late]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

Oh that I wish that were true. Appetite suppression will vaporize when we get to premaintnenace eating and even to our CCLL in the later days of OWL.

those that have taken the time to learn what their hunger is and how to know when they have eatten enough to satisfy it will be able to deal with this every day every meal and snack. Those that haven't taken the time to learn it will be in trouble and either a slave to the cal counting for every meal/snack while they really don't know how many cals their body actually needed at that time or on a run away eating trip moving the inches and sclaes in the wrong direction.

Appetite and Pre-Maintenance/Maintenance: Dr. Atkins addresses this in the Pre-Maintenance Chapter. He heavily relies on the fact that you know your body and you've come to grips with your compulsive over-eating issues because cravings can re-occur. They re-occur during OWL too and the problems I see with the OWL folks are that some of them haven't come to grips with their over-eating habits and proceed to over-eat on OWL.

Perhaps if Dr. Atkins had lived longer and learned from lurking on boards like ADBB, that folks were eating 1 cup of mayonnaise per day or 1 stick of butter per day, he would have addressed compulsive over-eating in his next revision of DANDR.

Do people over-eat during the first couple of weeks of Induction? Sure they do. But within the first 5 days of the diet, the appetite suppression of ketosis kicks in. So to the folks who are on week 30 of Atkins and and meal of 5 pork chops can barely"satisfy" your appetite, you gotta sit down and evaluate your eating habits--because there is a high probability that you are a compulsive over-eater.

Compulsive over-eating is an eating disorder, just like anorexia and bulimia. The chances are if you were a compulsive over-eater before you began Atkins, you will be a compulsive over-eater during Atkins. All the calorie counting and carb counting won't help you if you chronically and persistently over-eat "allowable" foods, not during the weight loss phases and certainly not during the weight maintenance phase. However, insight to your problem and changing these over-eating habits will help you out.

[cleochatra]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

To state that calorie counting isn't doing his plan is a little vindictive.

I mean, this site promotes modified OWL, as an example. Do modified OWLers not belong here?

Hardly.




Again, it's a matter of works and what doesn't,

[not2late]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

To state that calorie counting isn't doing his plan is a little vindictive.

I mean, this site promotes modified OWL, as an example. Do modified OWLers not belong here?

Hardly.




Again, it's a matter of works and what doesn't,

Well, in the OWL chapter there is a sentence that says (I'm paraphrasing) that you can eat below your CCLL if you should choose. Modified OWLers eat below their CCLL. So technically, modifying your OWL is within the DANDR 2002 limits.

[wannabethintoo]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

It's pretty discouraging for some of us who have been here for a long time and who pay it forward by volunteering a lot of time to hear some of the things that have been said here. I'll have to admit that this is the first time since I started Atkins back in May of last year that I'm questioning this WOL. I guess I have a lot to think about.

But there's always the Olympics and hockey! Canada is doing awesome!

[cleochatra]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

Calories are in the book, too. I think it's just a matter of perception.

ETA-- I think it's a matter of who deems what as important enough to discuss. I think calories are an important discussion. That we've never really had this discussion before would be surprising to me.

As well, ratios are not mentioned in the book... I never saw those percentages we use in fitday.

I do believe all are important tools, nonetheless.

And that's not a bad thing.

[not2late]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

Personally, I'm not a big fan of the percentages either. I recommend them only for people who I can see from their posts that they are low-fat people trying to overcome their fat-eating phobia. I see people who eat too much fat and people who eat too little fat, hence the "how much fat do I need to eat" sticky in the 14 Day Induction forum.

It's also a matter of how well you comprehend the book. In Chapter 11 FAQ section, Dr. Atkins clearly writes that calories do matter and while you do have the metabolic advantage, it does not give you the permission to "gorge" (in his words). So, if you are eating huge amounts of "legal" foods like protein and fat because your compulsive over-eating has skewed your perception of "hunger" and "satiety", then you aren't doing Atkins properly.

As I wrote, if you were a compulsive over-eater before Atkins, you are most likely a compulsive over-eater during Atkins. And if you have not been able to modify your food intake in spite of the appetite suppression of ketosis/lipolysis, then you have to examine and overcome your over-eating issues.