Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

[2big4mysize]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

Ok, I've mentioned this before 2big but you never specifically replied.

Don't you think this concept of only eating until the hunger is gone is something that you learn over time? Don't you think that people new to Atkins would benefit from keeping track of their calories until they've learnt to listen to their bodies and stop eating when they are no longer hungry?

Actually no I don't cause folk who are comfortable with calorie counting will start Atkins calorie counting afraid of the fats. it is far better to let them have the bike without the training wheels so they learn to balance from the get go. yes they make induction mistakes casue they didn't read the book cover to cover and know what they see on TV or heard from their friend's mother's briother's girlfriend's Atkins was not Atkins. BUT they quickly learn how to use the tools Dr Atkins has given them to learn that hunger satisfaction isn't a clean plate, eatting cause it was legal and they could hold it, or as woman praised just realize a fullness feeling in the belly. They learn not to eat becuase it is that time of day when folk should eat, they learn hey its okay to eat at 10PM cause they are hungry, they learn about their body and Atkins.

As I said earlier Dr Atkins gave us homework regarding this issue. how many of you even tried it? WHo read the book and remembers Dr Atkins discusssing how some folk would need to relearn about only eating to satisfy hunger? and to eat 1/2 the food on the plate stop put it away and go away until hungry later? Anybody? Any of those hollering count cals actually do that hiomework?nope? didn't think so. if from Day one you use the tools Dr Atkins gives you will learn it fast, but using calorie counting as your limts you will not. causae you know you can have that much. if it takes 600 cals on day and 300 two days later then you hshould listen to your body and feed your hunger.
Too many folk using training wheels jump off and on instead of riding Atkins for life cuase they don't know how to rely on their body to help them know how much to eat. After less then a month on Atkins we all should have learned that. so take off your training wheels and embrace Dr Atkins program and your hunger will count and conriol your cals for you.

[cleochatra]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

I eat 70% fat some days and STILL have trouble getting more than 900 calories per day! The fat is so satisfying that it's easy to actually undereat as it is to overeat.

This is what makes calorie counting so very important for those who choose to employ the method.

[2big4mysize]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

Did your doctor tell you you were undereating on those days and to stop? I don't think so.that is what the cal counting metality tells you.

see that is what AKins is about as long as you have the right ratio of foods your body can repair its tissues with the proteins and you have ample carbs for the few body parts that can't use fatty acids for fuel as they lack mitochondrias like red blood cells and your body will tell you when it needs more foods on the days you have more then 900 cals.

[cleochatra]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

Actually, my doctor said 900 calories per day, so long as I wasn't hungry and felt well and had no problems resulting from the restriction due to lack of hunger, was just fine. Starvation mode doesn't usually exist to someone who exercises and has fat to burn is what he says. People who have had weight loss surgery eat as much as I do, as well. Because of Atkins and watching what I'm eating, I'm actually losing weight faster than weight loss surgery patients!

I know cal counting is a tool many more of us use than I'd even realized before thanks to the amazing amount of feedback I'd been receiving. And using it in no way negates this way of eating (Atkins). In fact, it enforces good form, keeps people from overdoing and underdoing, and ensures people can testify to others on a common level of counting calories along with the net carbs.

I love it!

[america57]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

I am going through the walk away when you are full phase right now and having a hard time with it. I was extremely thin and sickly when I was little, I had pnemonia several times a year, I was also a picky eater, my mother used to tell me I was sick because I didn't eat enough. Now, I look at my plate, I'm no longer hungry, but I'm afraid that if I leave my food, I'll get sick...my grown up mind tells me it's not true, but the little girl thinks it might be true, then, if I get a headache or something later....I think, well there you go, you didn't eat enough!

Also, I wanted to weigh in on the gastric bypass 900 calories. My brother-in-law weighed over 400 pounds, had gastric bypass, lost over 250 pounds, gained a lot of it back and is now on the Atkins diet. I feel like Cleo feels, I skipped the painful surgery!

[2big4mysize]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

then why Cleo is it an issue to be having only 900 cals since your doc toldyou it wasn't an issue for folk to employ calorie countuing?

[cleochatra]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

2big-- if I hadn't been keeping track in the first place I couldn't have put my questions and thoughts to my doctor, wouldn't have the data for my own knowledge, and wouldn't be able to gauge how I'm doing based on thinking all that mattered was carb count. It's important to have those data points. People can choose to use them or not, but that doesn't negate that it's important to use all accessible information, especially when we're trying to gauge weight loss.

America-- I hear you, girlfriend! I'm so sorry to hear about your BIL. I am excited he's found Atkins, though! With you as his mentor and as a true Atkins poster girl, I know he's taking his weight off for good! {{{america}}}

[californiacasey]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

Cleo - Would you mind posting a sample menu of your 70% fat day? I'm curious to know what you're eating to get all that fat in...

Thanks...

[cleochatra]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

Here's one sample menu from a 'hungry' day recently. I had 1400 calories, 23 carbs, and 70% fat.

I feed to assuage hunger, so some days I'm at 1400 naturally and some I'm at 900. The averages don't change much, however.



As an addendum, on October 7th (Conversely), I had 831 calories, 69% fat and 15 net carbs.

My real crime is my not keeping tabs at fitday as much as I have on paper.

[2big4mysize]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

so you used it to see changes in your eating but not to limit your food intake? See that isn't the message coming out of your posting in this topic. Many of us have high days, normal days, and low eating days but we do that based on feeding our hunger not stiving for an abitary caloric intake number and because we don't there is no guilt associated with a high food day nor fretting over a low food day.

Cleo what phase are you on now with 1.5 cups of olives? or was that a mistake?

[cleochatra]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

2big-- Again, there are many reasons for keeping track of calories. I've given pretty much all of them on this thread. Some of it is fire patrol and putting out fires. Some of it is for comparison's sake. Some of it is idle curiosity because it's already been done. I think that's part of the beauty of calorie counting coupled with Atkins. There are so many reasons it shouldn't be counted out.

And again, we agree that feeding the body is essential. Still, counting calories and feeding actual hunger are not mutually exclusive, so we're not really disagreeing here. I'm just saying the same thing wannabe said earlier. If there are that many tools in the shed why ignore them?

[Elizellen]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

It looks as if part of our 'discussion' is centred around semantics.
So maybe if we were think of what Cleo is doing as 'tracking' calories and learning from her eating pattern what works for her, rather than counting them to plan her eating to a certain arbitrary calorie 'limit' we are all on the same page!!

[cleochatra]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

Elizellen--Hi sparkles! Good morning! I also believe restriucting calories isn't bad either.

Let me try and explain myself one last time for absolute clarity. We've been talking in circles for awhile now, but I'll just lay it on the line this last time in the hopes there will be some clarity.

Reasons for keeping track of calories:

1. Calorie tracking-- this is tracking calories anyway, and not paying attention to them aside from looking at the numbers as an aside at Fitday.

2. Calorie monitoring-- You know you should be at around 1200 calories a day, and the day you hit 1700 you are thinking,"Tomorrow I'd better up my fat in order to watch doing that again." You know that the occasional hungry day isn't going to hurt you, but you're aware for the signs that it could be more.

3.Necessary Data due to non-loss or slow loss-- You've paid no mind to calorie counting, but suddenly you're stalled. You research all data points and realize youve been eating 2200 carbs a day, well above your necessaary intake. It's no wonder there is no loss. Time to chop 500 calories out, then later we can restrict even more. This has worked for quite a few people here at the board.

4. Counting as a viable part of the plan-- At goal, a person will be at a certain weight; therefore eating to those caloric needs using Atkins is a viable way to lose weight. I am doing this now, either eating at or below my goal weight due to my experience with examples 1-3, and also why I follow4-6!

5. Counting calories as Socratic Dialogue with America-- As a data point, most Americans, while more starting to look at net carbs, are always, always looking to values such as caloric intake. To better describe to someone the ketogenic advantages of Atkins, it's a good thing to be able to say, "Lokk. Want proof I'm not hungry and can't eat? Here it is. 600 calories a day on Atkins when I was consiming 3500 calories a day without Atkins." etc. It's Socratic dialogue and it's how you compare apples to apples instead of trying to compare apples to kumquats in a world of apple-eaters.

6. Science-- 3500 calories = 1 pound coming or going. We depend on science for Atkins, and there's nothing wrong with looking to caloric intake, as it is the absolute scientific number to never lose sight of in the end. Atkins keeps us from being hungry while being able to achieve those numbers. It's a beautiful thing! Still, as I mentioned, people can also get fat on Atkins if they're eating above what they ought to be (and we've covered the ease of overeating maytonnaise and bacon as just two examples of this).

I'm not saying everyone must count calories. I am only saying that calories should not be discounted outright. Calories is no way "not Atkins". In fact, it is ,y contention that using all available data points is uber-Atkins.

[2big4mysize]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

See Cleo that is where you and others are steering Atkins eaters wrong. Instead of saying look at all those cals you are having it would be better to ask them to post a full menu and then ask did you need to eat all that food at each meal to satisfy your hunger.

We can all hold more food then we need at a meal but is is important for sucessful life long Atkinineers to get in touch with their hunger so they need to see if cutting some of the foods ( not cutting cals cause then they look to see wherethey can take out cals and still get the same fullness each meal.) makes then feel hungry sooner. if it doesn't then they are over eating their Atkins ( same thing as too many cals in) and need to use the Atkins tools, hunger, to break from the if the cals are lower I can still eat as much mentality that is what got low fat high carb folk fatter not thinner.
Dr Atkins knew back when he devised the counting method for his plan that he had to get folk away from the cals are the answer mindset and back to hunger is what matters mindset for eating so instead of saying have 80 cals of carbs a day during induction he said have 20 grams. focus on grams not cals. He says unlimited for the proteins and fats cause he tells us to use our hunger to decide how much to eat and everybody has a different degree of hunger every meal so it could be 6 wings one day and 2 wings another day but if he prescribed an amount that person would under eat and be hungery on the 6 wing day and overeat and be storing fats on the 2 wing day.

[wannabethintoo]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

So what if a person decides to eat a lot of bacon 'cause it's high in fat and no carbs. How much bacon would it take to not feel hungry anymore? I would say a lot. This person would not be over-eating their Atkins. They would be following the "eat more fat" rule and "eat until satisfied" rule. Is it right to be eating like this every day?