Anyone doing the meat ........

[maysea]

so how many of you could honestly say that you ate all your 20 carbs if you were in ketosis on induction as its very difficult as ketosis is a natural appertite surpresent. :nod

[not2late]

so how many of you could honestly say that you ate all your 20 carbs if you were in ketosis on induction as its very difficult as ketosis is a natural appertite surpresent. :nod

I can. I eat up to 40 carbs daily and I'm still in ketosis because my body allows me to eat up to 40 net carbs daily and lose weight. My appetite is suppressed because I don't feel hungry between meals or the time leading up to a meal--in fact, I have to remind myself to eat because I don't have this raving hunger problem anymore.

Again, based on Dr. Joslin's work on ketogenic diets people begin producing ketones when they drop their carbohydrate intake to 100 grams.

but isnt ketosis burning fat?

Technically, ketosis means the production of ketone bodies. Lipolysis is the "breakdown of fat". Ketones are produced during lipolysis. Alcoholics produce ketones because their livers are damaged from their alcohol abuse---doesn't in any way mean that they are "burning fat" off their thighs.

check this out these people arent dying their losin weight fast and kicking

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=231302&highlight=kimmer

You do realise that all fasts are temporary and that the weight they are losing is primarily water weight and some muscle weight, don't you?

yes im on day 17 of induction dont no how much weight exactly i have lost as i dont weigh myself (mood not being controlled by a machine) but i no its a lot as my clothes are a lot loser
come on now if you could lose weight faster wouldnt you want to ?

So if you don't monitor your weight loss, how do you come to the conclusion that you need something to speed yours up?

Anyhow, your last sentence sounds awfully like those bulemics and anorexics who want to lose weight at any cost (including their health/lives.) I'm sure you heard of the Terry Schaivo case in the US last month. Mrs. Schaivo was a bulemic whose eating disorder caused an life-threatening electrolyte imbalance that put her into that coma-state. Big price to pay for wanting to be thin at any cost, imo.

give me some proof this is unhealthy

We have given you the proof. Re-read these messages.

and dont anti low carb people think atkins is unhealthy?

Yes, because they think the only things you eat on Atkins is meat, eggs and cheese.

10lb before goal i will slowly add a few carbs continueing until i find im no longer losing weight. and stick to that for life.

That's what you do on the Atkins plan too.

[cleochatra]

Hi, maysea!

You're going to do great on this WOE, and you don't need to try for a bio-0 to do it! :hug

We have someone at ADBB who eats 90 carbs per day and is still losing weight!

[bnzstar]

I don't mean to sound snippy, but I just think that some of you are making a little too much out of it...it's not like the guy said I'm going to eat steak and eggs and nothing else for the rest of my life..its three days..so what????

Your reacting in the same way many people react to Atkins, in general.

At 5'8 and 150 pounds I may weigh more than I like, but I'm harldy obese, and my doctor considers me far from overweight at this point, and as I said I don't have any of the physical health problems mentioned on this board...so to assume that everyone on here is someone posting because their health is on the line is also taking things to extreme.

Again, I don't condone unhealthy eating. If I did I would go back to the cereal, twix bars and hawaiian punch diet I had in college and during my first 6 years or so in the "real world" when I weighed 115 lbs. I looked damn good but I was stuffed with junk...and I had no health problems.

We all gain weight for so many different reasons its unfair to assume..mine came mostly from medications known to add 10-15 lbs (Depo Provera, Prozac, and Wellbutrin).

I've cut out the Depo and with Atkins and I look like a new person in less than a week, so I'm happy and in no way trying to be mean. I just can't stand overreaction and NOW I"M OVERREACTING...(LOL)

[maysea]

maysea wrote:
so how many of you could honestly say that you ate all your 20 carbs if you were in ketosis on induction as its very difficult as ketosis is a natural appertite surpresent.


I can. I eat up to 40 carbs daily and I'm still in ketosis because my body allows me to eat up to 40 net carbs daily and lose weight. My appetite is suppressed because I don't feel hungry between meals or the time leading up to a meal--in fact, I have to remind myself to eat because I don't have this raving hunger problem anymore.

maysea replies : thats ketosis you maybe able to eat 40 but a lot of people cant
Again, based on Dr. Joslin's work on ketogenic diets people begin producing ketones when they drop their carbohydrate intake to 100 grams.

maysea replies not everyone.maysea wrote:

but isnt ketosis burning fat?


Technically, ketosis means the production of ketone bodies. Lipolysis is the "breakdown of fat". Ketones are produced during lipolysis. Alcoholics produce ketones because their livers are damaged from their alcohol abuse---doesn't in any way mean that they are "burning fat" off their thighs.

maysea replies : thats not the ketosis were talking about is itQuote:

check this out these people arent dying their losin weight fast and kicking

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=231302&highlight=kimmer

You do realise that all fasts are temporary and that the weight they are losing is primarily water weight and some muscle weight, don't you?

maysea replies : so is induction

Quote:

yes im on day 17 of induction dont no how much weight exactly i have lost as i dont weigh myself (mood not being controlled by a machine) but i no its a lot as my clothes are a lot loser
come on now if you could lose weight faster wouldnt you want to ?


So if you don't monitor your weight loss, how do you come to the conclusion that you need something to speed yours up?

maysea replies : dont need to speed it up want to

Anyhow, your last sentence sounds awfully like those bulemics and anorexics who want to lose weight at any cost (including their health/lives.) I'm sure you heard of the Terry Schaivo case in the US last month. Mrs. Schaivo was a bulemic whose eating disorder caused an life-threatening electrolyte imbalance that put her into that coma-state. Big price to pay for wanting to be thin at any cost, imo.

Quote:

give me some proof this is unhealthy

We have given you the proof. Re-read these messages.

maysea replies : this isnt medical evidence is it ?Quote:

and dont anti low carb people think atkins is unhealthy?



Yes, because they think the only things you eat on Atkins is meat, eggs and cheese.

Quote:

10lb before goal i will slowly add a few carbs continueing until i find im no longer losing weight. and stick to that for life.



That's what you do on the Atkins plan too.

maysea replies : exactly dito

[cleochatra]

When Atkins, himself, stated that between 0-20 carbs and it doesn't make a diffy in the scheme of things, I don't see the bio-0 line as being condusive to anything useful. Besides, even protein breaks down into glycogen to some degree in the bloodstream.

The only way to go true "0" is to suck air. *lol*

Save for in LA. There the air might have carbs.

[not2late]

I don't mean to sound snippy, but I just think that some of you are making a little too much out of it...it's not like the guy said I'm going to eat steak and eggs and nothing else for the rest of my life..its three days..so what????

So if he said, "I'm going to drink only water for 3 days", then according to your rationalization we should all pat him on his back and say "Go for it, sport"? It would be negligent of this website to endorse something like that.

Your reacting in the same way many people react to Atkins, in general.

Hardly. The people who "react" to Atkins are the ones who think Atkins is an "all the meat you can eat diet" and fail to realize that it is nutritionally sound.

At 5'8 and 150 pounds I may weigh more than I like, but I'm harldy obese, and my doctor considers me far from overweight at this point, and as I said I don't have any of the physical health problems mentioned on this board...so to assume that everyone on here is someone posting because their health is on the line is also taking things to extreme.

The majority of the people here are here because their health IS on the line. It would be morally irresponsible to assume that the majority here only need to lose 5 pounds.

Again, I don't condone unhealthy eating. If I did I would go back to the cereal, twix bars and hawaiian punch diet I had in college and during my first 6 years or so in the "real world" when I weighed 115 lbs. I looked damn good but I was stuffed with junk...and I had no health problems.

Really? You had no health problems? No vitamin deficiencies, no mineral deficiencies?

We all gain weight for so many different reasons its unfair to assume..mine came mostly from medications known to add 10-15 lbs (Depo Provera, Prozac, and Wellbutrin).

By medical definition, if you are overweight or if your body fat% is over the normal for your sex and age, you are unhealthy. Period. It doesn't matter if it's from the anti-depressants, hormonal replacements, etc. You are unhealthy.

I've cut out the Depo and with Atkins and I look like a new person in less than a week, so I'm happy and in no way trying to be mean. I just can't stand overreaction and NOW I"M OVERREACTING...(LOL)

Frankly, I think you are overeacting to the folks here who are trying to give advice to Maysea.

Again, Maysea asked a question. Opinions and advice was given. Whatever Maysea wants to do with that info is up to Maysea.

[Isabeau]

Ultimately maysea, you're going to do whatever you want. That's cool. However here at ha we can't condone your choice as eating the Atkins way. In reply to your originally posted question, nope I'm not doing that nor would I ever. You might want to post on the 'low carb eating other than Atkins' forum further down. Maybe some people there have done what you're doing.

[BikerGoddess]

I'll throw this in there for the young'uns who may not have experienced yet the side effects that poor nutrition can cause later on down the line.

In HS I was thin and ate like crap. When I did eat. Eh, a week without food? Not gonna die...

Well, I didn't die. I felt I was healthy at the time. Certainly no doctor was overly excited about my general health.

And then just a few months ago I realized what I had been doing to my body all along. For the last 32 years, I couldn't grow my nails out past the quick before they tore. Could fold them half. I tried calcium, gelatin, polishes, lotions, folic acid, you name it. All of a sudden, though, they were growing long and not breaking or splitting.

Guys, I've been on Atkins for over 2 years. It has taken that long of eating properly for my body to get back to healthy enough to 'waste' resources on my nails.

Our bodies are magnificient at staying alive. But alive is not optimal. Just because you feel ok or your bloodwork isn't way out of line doesn't mean that what you're doing is good for you. [As a side note, your body will leach calcium from your bones to keep levels in your bloodstream consistent. You might not know you're calcium deficient until osteoporosis sets in.]

We're not saying this is dangerous because we don't understand it, we're saying it's dangerous because we *do* understand it.

Laura

[not2late]

maysea wrote:
so how many of you could honestly say that you ate all your 20 carbs if you were in ketosis on induction as its very difficult as ketosis is a natural appertite surpresent.


I can. I eat up to 40 carbs daily and I'm still in ketosis because my body allows me to eat up to 40 net carbs daily and lose weight. My appetite is suppressed because I don't feel hungry between meals or the time leading up to a meal--in fact, I have to remind myself to eat because I don't have this raving hunger problem anymore.

maysea replies : thats ketosis you maybe able to eat 40 but a lot of people cant

Not true. Dr. Atkins said only very few people cannot eat above 20 net carbs and not lose weight. The majority of us can.

Again, based on Dr. Joslin's work on ketogenic diets people begin producing ketones when they drop their carbohydrate intake to 100 grams.

maysea replies not everyone.

Again, depends on how metabolically resistant to weight loss you are and other factors affecting your body. Since you never bothered to weigh yourself, it'll be hard to predict how metabolically resistant to weight loss you are.

maysea wrote:

but isnt ketosis burning fat?


Technically, ketosis means the production of ketone bodies. Lipolysis is the "breakdown of fat". Ketones are produced during lipolysis. Alcoholics produce ketones because their livers are damaged from their alcohol abuse---doesn't in any way mean that they are "burning fat" off their thighs.

maysea replies : thats not the ketosis were talking about is it

That's THE medical definition of ketosis: the production of ketones by your body. Not some made up definition by some dieter.

Quote:

check this out these people arent dying their losin weight fast and kicking

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=231302&highlight=kimmer

You do realise that all fasts are temporary and that the weight they are losing is primarily water weight and some muscle weight, don't you?

maysea replies : so is induction

Re-read your DANDR. You lose water weight during the first couple of days. The rest of the time, you are losing fat.

Quote:

yes im on day 17 of induction dont no how much weight exactly i have lost as i dont weigh myself (mood not being controlled by a machine) but i no its a lot as my clothes are a lot loser
come on now if you could lose weight faster wouldnt you want to ?


So if you don't monitor your weight loss, how do you come to the conclusion that you need something to speed yours up?

maysea replies : dont need to speed it up want to

Again, you didn't monitor your progress, yet you want to speed it up? It's hard to see what you are basing your "slow rate" upon if you didn't monitor your progress.

Anyhow, your last sentence sounds awfully like those bulemics and anorexics who want to lose weight at any cost (including their health/lives.) I'm sure you heard of the Terry Schaivo case in the US last month. Mrs. Schaivo was a bulemic whose eating disorder caused an life-threatening electrolyte imbalance that put her into that coma-state. Big price to pay for wanting to be thin at any cost, imo.

Quote:

give me some proof this is unhealthy

We have given you the proof. Re-read these messages.

maysea replies : this isnt medical evidence is it ?

2Big gave you the side effects of the high protein diets before they were altered to include fats and some carbs. Did you know those folks on that site are quoting the original Stillman diet? Stillman revised his diet during the mid-70s to include some carbs after it was shown high protein diets like his caused things like kidney failure, etc.---I found his revised book in my local public library a few months ago.

Again, it's totally up to you. You asked and you got answers/opinions. If you were given answers you don't like, you have to deal with it.

Good luck to you in your weight loss journey.

[Pam_C]

Ok being honest here. will 3 days of this kill you? no. Will 3 days harm you for life. no. But There is a question you have to ask yourself. Is my goal to lose weight or to be healthy? If I just wanted to lose weight I could do far more things worse than 3 days of this. I could stick my finger down my throat everyday and lose weight quick. I choose Atkins for a healthy lifestyle. The losing weight just comes along with that. If you obsess about losing weight and this works for you can you just do it 3 days or will you be able to stop? In the begining I wanted to lose weight but after 5 days of being soooo sick I couldn't do it. I wouldn't do it again but that is my choice. I hate vegetables but I have found some I like and am finding new ways to prepare them everyday. I think if you really want to do this than that is your choice. I think we are all just giving our opinions and you choose for yourself. Right now if that scale never moves again then so be it but I am eating healthy and that is Why I do Atkins. Society says you must be thin but If I could be 220 and be healthy Then I wouldn't be here. It is not about looks to me. Yes I think I look better now but looks are only skin deep. Do what you need to do for yourself but so them for the right reasons, yor health not your weight and appearance. Good luck in all you do.

[2big4mysize]

not only did his protein plan get revised they are actual warning on all protein powders about no using them for weifht loss to protect those companies from lawsuits after somebody dies from eating them as their only source of cals

Here are the facts
high protein eating acts a s a diuretic and causes blood pressure and electrolyte problems which were fatal for folk doing those protein plans

Every human being on earth is during the night in ketosis as defined by Dr Atkins as the burning of fats for fuel and the production of ketone molecules. This is wht he tells us not to test in the AM.

The human body has proteins stored in organds and muscles for times of need the body consumes the organ stores first before it goes after the muscle stores.

The human liver will with the asssitance of some enegry molecules convert protein to glucose when the body says it needs fuel by releasing certain chemicals in the muscles to the blood stream signally they are low in fuel if insulin is present in the blood stream. This is why Dr Atkins stresses repeatedly to us to not eat our Atkins too high in protein and why the Protein power diet plans are low fat low carb and not stressing ketosis.
So you got blood glucose from the proteins as fuel, you got insulin in response stimulating the liver to make more glucose from proteins. Insulin is a fat storing hormone so while insulin is in your blood stream the fats have to stay in the fat cells and your body is looking ofr more proteins to burn to keep those muscles and other body parts supplied with fuels. when the protein sources are used up and your energy level falls low enough to force the slowing of the sugar production in the liver the insulin level will drop anf the fats will come out to play a staring role in energy production again as they do on Atkins.

If you want the actual medical research on it you can check the testimony from the congressional investications or go to a med site not a weight loss memeber posted board for corroperation of those events and facts. you can check out the metabolism of proteins in any textbook diealing with diet from an anatomical view point. Fats and proteins can't both be used at the same time by the liver for creation of fuels as the activation hormones insulin and glycagon are in a negative feedback loop for production.

As Megs said many of us are inketosis on higher numbers ofr carbs then just the 20. I was eating over 100 on my OWL loonatika is over 100 on hers if you are a vigorous exerciser you can have more carbs as a part of your Atkins WOE and still be in ketosis and losing weight. Go asj the folk on the OWL/Premeaintenance boards where their CCLL is. many folk for speed of lose eat well below their CCLL by choice.

the bottom line is you are going to do what you want to do. Ihope you make an informed well researched desision about what you are willing to try to create a lighter version of yourself. I wish you happiness with your long term results.

[shadewolf]

so how many of you could honestly say that you ate all your 20 carbs if you were in ketosis on induction as its very difficult as ketosis is a natural appertite surpresent. :nod

I did. I used fitday and kept track of my carbs very religiously. On some days it was difficult to keep it at 20 let alone lower than that. I had hellish cravings for carbs during the first 2 weeks and had to stop myself from binging on veggies.

[bnzstar]

Not 2 late, I have respect for you as a moderator, but I must say that in order to prove your point you only took comments out of context that prove what YOU believe.

First:

At 5'8 and 150 lbs with a d cup by anyone's definition, any chart you use, BMI included, at my frame, plus the unbiased opinion more than one medical doctor--I AM NOT OVERWEIGHT...as I said-- I WEIGH MORE THAN I LIKE TO. I CHOOSE TO WEIGH LESS FOR REASONs THAT AFFECT MY LIVELIHOOD.

You read rather selectively, obviously.

And I also disagree that gaining weight from some chemical substance rather than overeating is different. It affects the body chemistry differently. I have a newscast to do, so I don't have time to google to prove my point, which by the way can just as easily be disproved by another source.

Second:

You are telling me you know more about my health than all the doctors I went to the whole time I was in college who told me that other than being underweight for my height at the time I was healthy as a horse!!!????? That despite all that I had/ have extremely low cholesterol and blood pressure far from ever being in the danger zone--both then and now, for the record. Apparently only you and Bill Frist think you can diagnose patients you've never seen. I was active in several organizations and running 5 miles a day and I was unhealthy?

Third: I didn't tell you to assume everyone here is only trying to lose 5 or 10 pounds, I simply stated that you should not assume everyone posting is some morbidly obese person with diabetes whose doctor has said lose weight or die. That is just as irresponsible, I mean you just told every 5'8 inch woman who weighs 150 pounds that she is basically unhealthy...or by the magic of the internet, is it just me?

Then I make light of the fact I am overreacting to the sensationalism this topic has generated and you try to further belittle me. If I didn't know better I'd swear you were one of my competitors in the t.v. news business from some of the exagerration and mistatements and taking information out of context.

Crucify me all you want, but I still disagree with the argument that 3 days of meat and eggs is deadly to all humankind (all sarcasm intended).


I specifically said more than once I don't condone healthy eating or this method as part of Atkins , you conveniently left that out of your cut and paste.

[not2late]

Not 2 late, I have respect for you as a moderator, but I must say that in order to prove your point you only took comments out of context that prove what YOU believe.

First:

At 5'8 and 150 lbs with a d cup by anyone's definition, any chart you use, BMI included, at my frame, plus the unbiased opinion more than one medical doctor--I AM NOT OVERWEIGHT...as I said-- I WEIGH MORE THAN I LIKE TO. I CHOOSE TO WEIGH LESS FOR REASONs THAT AFFECT MY LIVELIHOOD.

You read rather selectively, obviously.

You might not be overweight or obese. But from what I've seen on this website, you are an exception not the rule. Go to the Century Club and the Induction and OWL forums, look at the stats and see for yourself the vast number of ADBB members who are of normal weight. So, I'm not the only one being "selective" in this regard.

And I also disagree that gaining weight from some chemical substance rather than overeating is different. It affects the body chemistry differently. I have a newscast to do, so I don't have time to google to prove my point, which by the way can just as easily be disproved by another source.

Better talk to your doctor about that one. Chemically/medication- induced obesity and its related health problems are treated no differently nor are classified differently than obesity due to overeating. I do medical billing. There is no separate ICD-9 code for "obesity due to overeating" and "obesity due to medication". Obesity/overweight is treated the same no matter if it's from hormonal replacement therapy or from eating too much.

Second:

You are telling me you know more about my health than all the doctors I went to the whole time I was in college who told me that other than being underweight for my height at the time I was healthy as a horse!!!????? That despite all that I had/ have extremely low cholesterol and blood pressure far from ever being in the danger zone--both then and now, for the record. Apparently only you and Bill Frist think you can diagnose patients you've never seen. I was active in several organizations and running 5 miles a day and I was unhealthy?

Au contraire. YOU were the one who assumed that Maysea and most of the people here are physically fit enough to go on a quick loss diet scheme that had so many dangers that the diet's author revised it in the early-mid 1970s.

By the way even though we're obsessed with it as a society, cholesterol and blood pressure aren't the only indicators of "health". As for running 5 miles a day as a measure of "health", I have two words for you: Jim Fixx.

Third: I didn't tell you to assume everyone here is only trying to lose 5 or 10 pounds, I simply stated that you should not assume everyone posting is some morbidly obese person with diabetes whose doctor has said lose weight or die. That is just as irresponsible, I mean you just told every 5'8 inch woman who weighs 150 pounds that she is basically unhealthy...or by the magic of the internet, is it just me?

Once gain the majority of the people here are obese/overweight with medical problems. It would be awfully silly of me to assume that they are not and to tailor my advice to normal weight people with no apparent medical problems. In fact, it would be like going to Sweden and being hesistant to think the majority of the people there are Swedish.

Then I make light of the fact I am overreacting to the sensationalism this topic has generated and you try to further belittle me. If I didn't know better I'd swear you were one of my competitors in the t.v. news business from some of the exagerration and mistatements and taking information out of context.

I re-read this entire thread. The first page is filled with folks telling Maysea 1. meat fasts are not a part of Atkins and 2. meat fasts aren't the healthiest weight loss option available.

This is your initial post in this thread:

Oh come on people! You can't tell me that none of you as a college student ate the same thing for three days in a row. NEWS FLASH I ate nothing but scrambled eggs for a week after I lost my job and guess what I didn't die!!!
I've also eaten cereal every meal for weeks at a time as well as cheese hot dogs and one time tuna sandwhiches. I didn't die.

It's fine to beg to differ with whether this is in line with Atkins or appropriate for weight loss purposes but to act like its going to instantly kill you or endanger someone's life is absurd! That person would have to be horribly unfit to begin with!

I consider that post to be not only sensationalistic but demeaning to the sincerity and factual basis of the advice given. It makes light of a diet, whose own author revised due to the safety issues of the original plan. Quite frankly, your initial post is something I would have expected to read in the Hearst newspapers of the early 20th century not on an weight loss support board.

Crucify me all you want, but I still disagree with the argument that 3 days of meat and eggs is deadly to all humankind (all sarcasm intended).

No one's crucified you. I disagreed with you. Disagreement isn't "crucifixion" imo.

As I have said repeatedly. Maysea asked a question and received honest, fact-based answers and opinions. Whatever he or anyone wants to do with that is totally up to him. It's morally irresponsible for us to say to Maysea and others "go ahead and do a diet that had enough dangers to prompt the diet's author revised his plan", imo.

I specifically said more than once I don't condone healthy eating or this method as part of Atkins , you conveniently left that out of your cut and paste.

No I didn't conveniently leave it out. I left it out to spare you embarrassment. See, your position on this matter has been inconsistent. On the one hand, you say "Go ahead, it won't hurt you. Everyone here should lighten up." and on the other, you say you don't condone unhealthy eating. Granted I don't think you would have written that if you knew that the plan Maysea copied from the other site was revised by its author due to its inherent health dangers.

You can disagree as much as you want. All I ask is that you don't belittle and demean the efforts of the people here who did know the facts about this "meat fast" and other facets of basic human nutrition and physiology.