Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

[not2late]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

Could the bottom line here be this..... that we are all trying to figure out that which works best for us?


Such as my case: I DO have to watch calories, I DO have to watch carbs and I DO have to watch portions. In my case, I HAVE to stop at satisfied, not full. No matter how many or how few calories I have consumed. If I am low on calories but I have stuffed myself, I won't lose. Sometimes I can go fairly high on calories but as long as I'm just "satisfied", I lose.

We are all different. This has been really interesting to find out what is working for everyone. I hope everyone on the board takes time to read this thread.... and share!

Actually the bottomline is what Labarum has in his siggy: "Atkins said don't count calories, not calories don't count".

People read "don't count calories" as calories don't matter. "Don't count calories" is a very different thing from "calories don't matter". Dr. Atkins wrote in the book you stuff yourself like a Thanksgiving turkey you won't lose weight. It's as simple as that.

[cleochatra]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

Megs-- Again, we'll just have to do what is right for us and disagree here. I agree with your points in theory minimally, but it doesn't in any way exclude counting calories.

People can either count them or not. It's really their choice. I just like people to have all the options on the table, especially when so many here at ADBB have had so much success doing it this way.



{{{Deb}}} It's so good to see you again!

[not2late]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

Megs-- Again, we'll just have to do what is right for us and disagree here. I agree with your points in theory minimally, but it doesn't in any way exclude counting calories.

I look at it like this. We know exactly what we can and cannot eat during each phase of our Atkins because we have a list of acceptable foods and a list of rules. So we know that on Induction, a bowl of strawberries is not allowed. While we may choose to ignore the rules, we still have the knowledge and awareness that strawberries are not allowed.

If you know your definitions of "hunger", "satiety", "full", etc. are then you can use that awareness in your weight loss (and weight maintenance) armamentarium. You will know what the signs are that you are "satisfied" or "hungry". You may choose to ignore these signs, but your awareness of them makes you accountable to you---before you take another bite.

Sitting down and writing out your definitions is alot harder and more introspective than flipping through a nutrient database and looking at numbers. In fact, it makes you examine your value system and your "self". So, I can see why many people choose not to do this, because it's scary. It's scary to realize that only by eating an entire pot roast you'll feel "satisfied" with your meal----it's even scarier to figure out why you need to eat that huge amount.

People can either count them or not. It's really their choice. I just like people to have all the options on the table, especially when so many here at ADBB have had so much success doing it this way.

Too true. People can choose to spend their time counting calories through the weight loss phases of Atkins. And they will most likely spend their time counting them during the weight maintenance, constantly adjusting them for various conditions like aging, periods of illness, and periods of increased activity. If that's your thing, go for it.

I'd rather spend my time doing something else.

[cleochatra]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

That's cool, megs!

We can agree to disagree.

[wannabethintoo]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

Don't we all agree that if keeping track of calories is going to keep more people doing Atkins then that's a good thing? That's what this is all about.....try another approach if it's not working for you. Eventually, once you've learnt the concept of eating only when you're hungry....and I believe it takes time to learn this... then you have it made and can drop counting calories.

Can we agree on that? Otherwise, what is your advice to new people starting Atkins and complaining that they can't recognize that they are no longer hungry? What do you tell them?

[Rick]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

Ok, I'm not a "big loser" here yet, but this is my take on this subject. Yes, we all agree that we have a list of acceptable foods for each stage of our Atkins. This is a good thing, and we are allowed to make our choices from those lists. It just makes sense to me that if we continually chose the high calorie choices from the list that we won't have the same successes that we'll have if we chose lower calorie foods, and still maintain the ratios of fat/protein/carbs. If you can eat until satisfied, keep the proper ratios, and do it on less calories, then it only makes sense that you'll have better success. If we eat all high calorie meals, even in the correct ratios, I don't see the success ratio as being as good.

Do I personally "count" calories? No. But, do I think they are important? Yes.

Again, I'm not a "big loser" yet... but, I'm gonna be!

I really think that Dr. A teaches that if we're doing this WOL correctly that the natural appetite suppressant, ketosis, will keep us from overeating calories.

Very good discussion.
Rick

[cleochatra]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

Great points, wannabe! That's even a different way of looking at it that I hadn't considered.

Rick, you've been doing wonderfully! Thanks for putting it so eloquently. I agree that it definitely comes down to choices. Ketosis can keep us from being hungry, but I like what you said-- we still have to consider what we're eating when we sit down to dinner.

[2big4mysize]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

I think we need to poll the STAC folk and see who counts cals and who uses hunger to define what they eat Then maybe the light would shine on this and folk would see why counting cals isn't the way to go.

Don't we all agree that if keeping track of calories is going to keep more people doing Atkins then that's a good thing? That's what this is all about.....try another approach if it's not working for you. Eventually, once you've learnt the concept of eating only when you're hungry....and I believe it takes time to learn this... then you have it made and can drop counting calories.
Can we agree on that? Otherwise, what is your advice to new people starting Atkins and complaining that they can't recognize that they are no longer hungry? What do you tell them?c

Wannabe why would we want a new Atkinser to ignore Dr Atkins advice? If from day one they practiced what he said in chapter 11 about only eating part of the food on the plate and stopping. then eat the rest as soon as they got hungry by the end of inductioin they would know their hunger and realize how it feels to to actually satisfy their hunger. Then from that point on they know if they are overeating or not. just like bike riding with or without training wheels the folk not using the training wheels (counting cals) have learned the skills needed to be a success for life. the folk using the training wheels have no more skill at actually doing it then they did on day one when they learned how to steer,brake and pedal.
Why tell them to eat from the lists but not practice relearning hunger satiated part of the same chapter?

[Rick]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

2Big, I am going to reply here, as a newbie to this WOL. Remember, you've been doing this for much, much longer than I. And, you've been doing this successfully for much longer than anyone new to this WOL.

I want to say this. I think that doing Atkins is a learning experience. People can read and read and reread the book. They can come here, read the stickys, go through trials and tribulations... and are still confused by the signals the body sends to them. We have gone through years, and for some of us, decades, of eating the wrong ways. We have learned bad habits from the time we were infants. Reading a book or a website doesn't kill the instincts that have been taught. I'm not saying that it can't be done... but we're taught from the time that we're teenagers that calories count.

The nice thing about Atkins is that we can use that to our advantage, I believe. We have this huge list of acceptable foods that are available to us... we can even cook them in so many ways that it's hard to become bored. If we use the Atkins prescribed ratios, get in our ammounts of fat/protein/carbs, then what is the harm if we chose the foods that will also fit into a lower caloric intake? I mean, we can do meals that are extremely high fat/calorie, and then we have to eat more of the other foods to make the ratios work out. Not saying that is necessarily bad... but we can also chose foods that have less fat, thus taking less carbs/proteins to satisfy the hunger...and take less calories.

I guess what I'm saying is this. I think that calorie counting has it's place, and that it can work well with Atkins if you keep with the ratios, and still satisfy the hunger. I don't think it works as a total answer. If you specifically work to count only calories, and don't fill your hunger, then you are going to have cravings, have a better chance of binging and/or cheating, and will fail to meet your goals.

I guess the bottom line to what I think of this whole thread is.... drumroll please...

You're all right!!!

[LC_Dave]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

Okay,

Shoudl I be concerned that I am going to baloon back to my old weight because I haven't been monitoring my calories ?

Obviously you don't get to the weight of 473 pounds without some metabolic issue.

I have been eating Atkins and not counting calories. Never counting calories. Eating until satisfied, limiting the snacking between meals (easy at work )

My belief is that if I keep going the way I am I am going to keep losing weight.

But what you are saying is that by doing this, I could be in danger of balooning my weight again, because of calorie creep ?

How much food can I eat ??

A big part of my reaosn for being so big had nothing to do with excessive calories, but rather the decrease in my metabolism from being on diets that lowered calories!

Contrary to a lot of people's assumption us big folks don't consume truck loads of calories!

I'd appreciate an opinion from those who restrict their calories on this.
(Don't worry I've gotten over my middle life criss! LOL)

[2big4mysize]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

it has nothing to do with how long I have been doing Atkins. Learning to feed only hunger was from the begining for me cause I started Atkins on almost 4000 cals a day. My appetite was suppressed and I cut back the amount of food I ate. Happened every day every meal. 5 Months later when I learned about fitday I plugged my food journals in and saw my cals had dropped to less then 2000 in those 5 months I dropped over 80 pounds and never once counted cals or picked a menu based on the total cals for the day, just the carbs as I went. if i was hungry I ate more food if I wasn't I was like a picking toodler just nibbling on some carbs fats and proteins.
Brook on the other had had not cut back her food intake and everybody who was here in Aug 2003 remembers Brooks AH HA momnet as she was in a 12 week stall and finally realized she was eating the same amount of food she had been on her first day 15 months before and over 50 pounds before. she cut out the 2 burgers at dinner and only had one and poof her scales moved. She called it portion control. In reality it was doing what Dr Atkins said about feeding the hunger and not just cause you could eat it and it was legal foods.


okay Rick lets say our new atkineer uses your method and decides today they will eat X cals for the day and have 1/3 X at each meal. what if today the new Atkineer needs 1.2X cals. Since they have used an artifical number to determine the cals for the day and have picked a number too low then they will be hungry and craving foods. Allowing your appetite to set the amount you have at a meal and if the next meal will be because you were hungry or hit the 6hr rule will keep you from over eating your Atkins even if you pick high fat high cal foods for the hungry meal cause your ketosis will deepen and you will not be eaitng a meal at the 6hr mark but a small snack since we know Atkineers follow Dr Atkins instuctions.

[2big4mysize]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

Dave keep doing what you are doing. Use your appetite to determine your food intake and you will keep losing. Practicing this portion controlling now like you are doing is what will keep you healthier and smaller.

[wannabethintoo]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

it has nothing to do with how long I have been doing Atkins. Learning to feed only hunger was from the begining for me cause I started Atkins on almost 4000 cals a day. My appetite was suppressed and I cut back the amount of food I ate. Happened every day every meal. 5 Months later when I learned about fitday I plugged my food journals in and saw my cals had dropped to less then 2000 in those 5 months I dropped over 80 pounds and never once counted cals or picked a menu based on the total cals for the day, just the carbs as I went. if i was hungry I ate more food if I wasn't I was like a picking toodler just nibbling on some carbs fats and proteins.
Brook on the other had had not cut back her food intake and everybody who was here in Aug 2003 remembers Brooks AH HA momnet as she was in a 12 week stall and finally realized she was eating the same amount of food she had been on her first day 15 months before and over 50 pounds before. she cut out the 2 burgers at dinner and only had one and poof her scales moved. She called it portion control. In reality it was doing what Dr Atkins said about feeding the hunger and not just cause you could eat it and it was legal foods.

Well obviously you were keeping track of calories in order to get the data you have. That's all we're saying here...be aware of what you are eating. Don't just blindly eat anything.

[wannabethintoo]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

okay Rick lets say our new atkineer uses your method and decides today they will eat X cals for the day and have 1/3 X at each meal. what if today the new Atkineer needs 1.2X cals. Since they have used an artifical number to determine the cals for the day and have picked a number too low then they will be hungry and craving foods. Allowing your appetite to set the amount you have at a meal and if the next meal will be because you were hungry or hit the 6hr rule will keep you from over eating your Atkins even if you pick high fat high cal foods for the hungry meal cause your ketosis will deepen and you will not be eaitng a meal at the 6hr mark but a small snack since we know Atkineers follow Dr Atkins instuctions.

That's not what happens....at least not with me. I still eat when I'm hungry, I just pick lower calorie foods if my calories are getting high for the day. And let's face it. I don't set an actual limit....it's a wide range so there's lots of room to feed the hunger with.

[wannabethintoo]

Re: Calories still matter, even on a low-carb plan

Okay,

Shoudl I be concerned that I am going to baloon back to my old weight because I haven't been monitoring my calories ?

Obviously you don't get to the weight of 473 pounds without some metabolic issue.

I have been eating Atkins and not counting calories. Never counting calories. Eating until satisfied, limiting the snacking between meals (easy at work )

My belief is that if I keep going the way I am I am going to keep losing weight.

But what you are saying is that by doing this, I could be in danger of balooning my weight again, because of calorie creep ?

How much food can I eat ??

A big part of my reaosn for being so big had nothing to do with excessive calories, but rather the decrease in my metabolism from being on diets that lowered calories!

Contrary to a lot of people's assumption us big folks don't consume truck loads of calories!

I'd appreciate an opinion from those who restrict their calories on this.
(Don't worry I've gotten over my middle life criss! LOL)

Dave, if you are losing weight then don't change a thing.